Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » Sell, Buy or Rent?

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  [Go to page]   1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:18 am 
Offline
Speculator

Joined: Jan 20, 2008
Posts: 401
Location: Midlands
From the article: Looks like it's for NEW 'homes' only (so, yeah, a 'home' could be an apartment, they do use the term loosely)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/budget-2017-first-time-buyers-to-get-income-tax-refund-1.2812496

"First-time homebuyers are to be given a refund on income tax to help them accumulate a mortgage deposit under proposals expected to be included in next month’s Budget.
It is understood the level of the refund, which sources expect to range between €5,000 and €15,000, will be linked to the price of the home rather than the earnings of buyers.

Encourage developers
The scheme is aimed primarily at newly-built properties priced between €220,000 and €320,000.

The scheme will be designed to ensure couples and single people are treated equally.
The grant will be awarded as a “bullet refund”, a lump sum discharged in one go, to help buyers meet the Central Bank requirements in relation to mortgage deposits.
Earlier this week, Mr Coveney indicated couples and individuals seeking to buy new homes will be treated equally.
However, final figures will not be arrived at until Mr Noonan’s overall tax package is agreed in advance of the October 11th Budget."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:44 am 
Offline
Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Jan 28, 2013
Posts: 1336
bookworm wrote:
From the article: Looks like it's for NEW 'homes' only (so, yeah, a 'home' could be an apartment, they do use the term loosely)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/budget-2017-first-time-buyers-to-get-income-tax-refund-1.2812496

"First-time homebuyers are to be given a refund on income tax to help them accumulate a mortgage deposit under proposals expected to be included in next month’s Budget.
It is understood the level of the refund, which sources expect to range between €5,000 and €15,000, will be linked to the price of the home rather than the earnings of buyers.

Encourage developers
The scheme is aimed primarily at newly-built properties priced between €220,000 and €320,000.

The scheme will be designed to ensure couples and single people are treated equally.
The grant will be awarded as a “bullet refund”, a lump sum discharged in one go, to help buyers meet the Central Bank requirements in relation to mortgage deposits.
Earlier this week, Mr Coveney indicated couples and individuals seeking to buy new homes will be treated equally.
However, final figures will not be arrived at until Mr Noonan’s overall tax package is agreed in advance of the October 11th Budget."


This will ensure the gap between those who can and those who cant will grow wider. It's a bailout for developers paid with your tax. FG are FF nua. Short-term / self serving country wreckers!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:37 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2561
Quote:
The grant will be awarded as a “bullet refund”, a lump sum discharged in one go, to help buyers meet the Central Bank requirements in relation to mortgage deposits


So this is openly, and blatantly trying to fudge the CBI rules (paid for by the taxpayer of course)

CBI should announce that this element doesn't count towards deposit requirements

To think, in 2011 I advocated a vote for FG as we needed to erase FF from memory once and for all. FG = FF end of

_________________
Borrowers seeking mortgages have had to resort to saving deposits, forcing many to sit by and watch house prices tumble without being able to do anything about it. Sunday Independent - June 1 2008

I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:38 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2561
How can this apply to new homes only, didn't home choice fall over on the same basis?

_________________
Borrowers seeking mortgages have had to resort to saving deposits, forcing many to sit by and watch house prices tumble without being able to do anything about it. Sunday Independent - June 1 2008

I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:48 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Feb 9, 2010
Posts: 9019
Renting And Proud! wrote:
How can this apply to new homes only, didn't home choice fall over on the same basis?

The ceiling seems a bit arbitrary too. There are not a lot of new houses for sale in Dublin for under 320k. It would make more sense to have a tax refund but only for the first 320k of the value of the house.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:31 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5051
Renting And Proud! wrote:
So this is openly, and blatantly trying to fudge the CBI rules (paid for by the taxpayer of course)

CBI should announce that this element doesn't count towards deposit requirements

That makes no sense.

The point of the CB regs is to constrain leverage of the banks' loan books. It's not a savings test.

This is a simple tax break/fiscal stimulus aimed at an overheated market. Like pouring petrol on a fire.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:21 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5578
Is there Devil in the detail:
Are these new homes or homes which were never sold to an owner occupier?
Could it be that most of the NAMA stock sold to international vultures rented at present who never sold it on will be eligible?

If so though then small time property magnates like Luan would or should be incandescent with rage(more so than all the rest of us) as their properties are no longer competing on a level playing field.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:55 pm 
Offline
Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Jul 31, 2011
Posts: 1405
Location: 0-71
This whole thing is really a great joke on the whole market situation, a very dark joke.

_________________
Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:46 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1992
This is being reported by pol corrs who are slapdash and innumerate, so it's hard to know if the details are right.

But if they are, it is not the worst kind of subsidy you could have.

1) The CBI rules mean that buyers won't be able to use it to look like they've saved more. Buyers won't be stretched and it doesn't make balance sheets worse.
2) So the subsidy will go direct to the developer
3) At the margin, this may make SOME development more viable. The impact will be pretty small and there will be plenty deadweight
4) Impact on 2nd-hand market will be negligible though

This was the model for most of the 70s by the way. First-time buyer couples wrote into the Department of Environment who gave them a grant. Construction - mainly monoculture semi-Ds of course - was far higher than it was today.

Of course there are FAR better ways of encouraging building but that would require an overhaul of the planning system (no Part V). It would also mean local authorities pro-actively CPO-ing land, putting the services in place and then auctioning the sites to developers. All of this is extremely unlikely of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:11 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 1980
dipole wrote:
Is there Devil in the detail:
Are these new homes or homes which were never sold to an owner occupier?
Could it be that most of the NAMA stock sold to international vultures rented at present who never sold it on will be eligible?

If so though then small time property magnates like Luan would or should be incandescent with rage(more so than all the rest of us) as their properties are no longer competing on a level playing field.

Small time "property magnates" have gotten over the fact that the market in which we operate is is not a level playing field.

Regardless the reason this scheme is limited to new builds is to allow the government offset the cost of grant against an associated VAT receipt. Least we forget circa 20% of the price of a new build goes to the government.

At a personal level, I view as no different to any of the other social housing schemes dreamed up by the lads in government buildings to help those on lower incomes to buy a house.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:58 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5578
If the vultures are able to exploit this on the stuff they bought below market rate then no units of new property will be built until they clear their backlog at below the cost of construction of the new units.
It might be a conspiracy theory but they certainly used special vehicles to purchase these properties and the status of these properties which they bought isn't the same as a conventional property sold to the great unwashed or small time property magnate.
It'd be nice to have some proof that the vultures wouldn't find some way to exploit it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:32 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 1980
dipole wrote:
It might be a conspiracy theory but they certainly used special vehicles to purchase these properties and the status of these properties which they bought isn't the same as a conventional property sold to the great unwashed or small time property magnate.
It'd be nice to have some proof that the vultures wouldn't find some way to exploit it.

What makes you think (other than your paranoia) that the properties brought by the Reits and other funds are classified as anything other than second hand properties?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:41 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5578
Because they were able to demand and given anything they demanded up until now.
I remember it being mentioned here and elsewhere that a lot of the property being rented at the high end of market rate in big Dublin apartment blocks were never sold.

You can feign offence but it has been shown time and time again that "the system" in Ireland exists purely so that it can be gamed and that isn't paranoia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:53 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5736
Location: SthDub
No one in power is listening Ronan, pointless shouting about it at this stage

Why first-time buyers need no Budget help - says economist
http://www.independent.ie/business/budg ... 98113.html
Quote:
In a report from property group Daft, published this morning, Mr Lyons pointed out that the number of new homes being sold in Dublin and the rest of the country is continuing to rise.
He said that the number of new homes sold in Dublin was 63pc higher in the first half of 2016 than in the first six months of 2014. Elsewhere, the increase was 15pc.

"With this evidence, it is tough to argue that there is a compelling case for help for first-time buyers in the upcoming Budget," he said.
Mr Lyons argued that it is more important for the Government to tackle the actual cost of building new homes, which are subject to punitive VAT levies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017 - First Time Buyers Income Tax Refund
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:23 pm 
Offline
Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Oct 7, 2014
Posts: 1000
FreeFallin wrote:
No one in power is listening Ronan, pointless shouting about it at this stage

Why first-time buyers need no Budget help - says economist
http://www.independent.ie/business/budg ... 98113.html
Quote:
In a report from property group Daft, published this morning, Mr Lyons pointed out that the number of new homes being sold in Dublin and the rest of the country is continuing to rise.
He said that the number of new homes sold in Dublin was 63pc higher in the first half of 2016 than in the first six months of 2014. Elsewhere, the increase was 15pc.

"With this evidence, it is tough to argue that there is a compelling case for help for first-time buyers in the upcoming Budget," he said.
Mr Lyons argued that it is more important for the Government to tackle the actual cost of building new homes, which are subject to punitive VAT levies.


To be fair, it seems like this is more or less equivalent to a VAT reduction (albeit targeted specifically at first time buyers, rather than across the market).

Still agree that it would make more sense to target actual costs, rather than mess around with another messy and expensive-to-administer scheme, but I don't think this as far away from the "correct" policy as has been made out.

(For clarity: still don't think it's a "good" idea)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  [Go to page]   1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » Sell, Buy or Rent?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], slasher and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com