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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 576
irish_bob wrote:
i lived and worked in new zealand a number of years ago , a truly bizarre attitude to complaining exists , its not tolerated at any level

the standard response to every complaint and criticism from kiwis is " stop whining "

you get this from the man on the street to official goverment bodies

" the heating wont work in the house you rented me " = stop whining

" the car you sold me is failing to stop " = stop whining

" i have yet to receive my tax refund " = stop whining


It honestly sounds like paradise!


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 203
Rubbish. People complain just as much. Short term migrants arent listened to. Thats not unique to nz though. You would have been put into the whinging pom category

tinneym wrote:
irish_bob wrote:
i lived and worked in new zealand a number of years ago , a truly bizarre attitude to complaining exists , its not tolerated at any level

the standard response to every complaint and criticism from kiwis is " stop whining "

you get this from the man on the street to official goverment bodies

" the heating wont work in the house you rented me " = stop whining

" the car you sold me is failing to stop " = stop whining

" i have yet to receive my tax refund " = stop whining


It honestly sounds like paradise!


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:04 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
Did it ever cross your mind that you just might have been a whinging pom? Each culture has its own way of complaining and in general what works in one country does not work in another. Dont have a large enough sample of dealing with kiwis but the ones I have dealt with strike me as basically a toned down version of Ozies in attitudes and approach. A bit like Canadians and Americans. A less hard-edged version but still basically the same. Well with all the Ozies and Americans I have know, quiet a lot of both, they both have a very up front culture of complaint. With Canadians and Kiwis it a lot less confrontational but it is still very much there. The Irish (and to a lesser extent the British) dont have a culture of complaint. Incessant moaning and whinging yes. Complaint no. For fecks sake, the best rated non news program on RTE Radio 1 is the Daily Moan a.k.a The Joe Duffy Show. A moan-fest from beginning to end. Every day.

The difference between whinging and complaining is that a complaint not only contains the perceived problem but a solution to fix it. So instead of moaning to all and sundry at the table (and afterwards) - this steak taste like shit - and doing nothing about it but get annoyed and simmer. A complaint would be "waiter - this steak does nt take quite right - would you bring me something else. Or take it off the check..etc. ". The reason why people who come from moaning cultures like the UK and Ireland get such a bad reputation in Oz and the US is precisely because they just dont know how to complaint in a constructive manner. With constructive being the key word here.

It sounds like you never made the transition to a very different culture. Just because they speak the same language does not mean they will think in exactly the same as what you grew up with. Your description of NZ bears not the slightest resembles to what I have heard from other people who have lived there. People not only from the UK, but the US, Canada and even France. Me, I never had any problem with the up front Complaint Culture of Americans , Australians and South Africans. To name but three. A real breath of fresh air after all the suppressed aggression of the moaning culture I grew up in. If the complaint does not contain the solution to the problem then its just a moan. And will be treated accordingly. Which may come as a bit of a shock to those not familiar with this culture.



more assumptions in that post than i could shake a stick at

as for the absurd similarities between kiwis and americans you suggest , america is known for its complaints culture , you point out a shortcoming in service if you see it , in new zealand the one providing the service doesnt want to know about it full stop from reporting workplace bullying to a boss to complaining about inadequate accomodation to a landlord , ive met plenty of people ( irish and other ) who had the same view so dont assume yours is the definitive experience , witness the reaction last november post the ireland - all blacks match when they nearly crippled a few of our lads , the kiwi press were incensed we dare to call them on it , was the same when BOD was nearly put in a wheelchair by umaga and that other guy


Last edited by irish_bob on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:06 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
shanieboy01 wrote:
Rubbish. People complain just as much. Short term migrants arent listened to. Thats not unique to nz though. You would have been put into the whinging pom category

tinneym wrote:
irish_bob wrote:
i lived and worked in new zealand a number of years ago , a truly bizarre attitude to complaining exists , its not tolerated at any level

the standard response to every complaint and criticism from kiwis is " stop whining "

you get this from the man on the street to official goverment bodies

" the heating wont work in the house you rented me " = stop whining

" the car you sold me is failing to stop " = stop whining

" i have yet to receive my tax refund " = stop whining


It honestly sounds like paradise!



typical " i dont want to know about it " kiwi attitude

incredibly smug nation


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:06 am 
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Joined: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Australia
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017 ... using-plan

Quote:
New Zealand-based economist Shamubeel Eaqub says, while the debate continues in Australia, accessing super for housing is something New Zealanders have been able to do for years.

"It's been going for about five years, and you can essentially draw down in your superannuation account in New Zealand, it's called KiwiSaver and you can use that towards your deposit," he said.

Mr Euqub says the average amount withdrawn has grown to about NZ$19,000, which is about 4 per cent of the median house price, with about 25,000 people using the scheme per year.


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:13 am 
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IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31353
Location: Tullamore
irish_bob wrote:
Did it ever cross your mind that you just might have been a whinging pom? Each culture has its own way of complaining and in general what works in one country does not work in another. Dont have a large enough sample of dealing with kiwis but the ones I have dealt with strike me as basically a toned down version of Ozies in attitudes and approach. A bit like Canadians and Americans. A less hard-edged version but still basically the same. Well with all the Ozies and Americans I have know, quiet a lot of both, they both have a very up front culture of complaint. With Canadians and Kiwis it a lot less confrontational but it is still very much there. The Irish (and to a lesser extent the British) dont have a culture of complaint. Incessant moaning and whinging yes. Complaint no. For fecks sake, the best rated non news program on RTE Radio 1 is the Daily Moan a.k.a The Joe Duffy Show. A moan-fest from beginning to end. Every day.

The difference between whinging and complaining is that a complaint not only contains the perceived problem but a solution to fix it. So instead of moaning to all and sundry at the table (and afterwards) - this steak taste like shit - and doing nothing about it but get annoyed and simmer. A complaint would be "waiter - this steak does nt take quite right - would you bring me something else. Or take it off the check..etc. ". The reason why people who come from moaning cultures like the UK and Ireland get such a bad reputation in Oz and the US is precisely because they just dont know how to complaint in a constructive manner. With constructive being the key word here.

It sounds like you never made the transition to a very different culture. Just because they speak the same language does not mean they will think in exactly the same as what you grew up with. Your description of NZ bears not the slightest resembles to what I have heard from other people who have lived there. People not only from the UK, but the US, Canada and even France. Me, I never had any problem with the up front Complaint Culture of Americans , Australians and South Africans. To name but three. A real breath of fresh air after all the suppressed aggression of the moaning culture I grew up in. If the complaint does not contain the solution to the problem then its just a moan. And will be treated accordingly. Which may come as a bit of a shock to those not familiar with this culture.

Thank you, that's a useful post re US culture (though it does vary by location in the US, I think, as I've found some fellow whingers :)).

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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:54 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 4206
irish_bob wrote:



more assumptions in that post than i could shake a stick at

as for the absurd similarities between kiwis and americans you suggest , america is known for its complaints culture , you point out a shortcoming in service if you see it , in new zealand the one providing the service doesnt want to know about it full stop from reporting workplace bullying to a boss to complaining about inadequate accomodation to a landlord , ive met plenty of people ( irish and other ) who had the same view so dont assume yours is the definitive experience , witness the reaction last november post the ireland - all blacks match when they nearly crippled a few of our lads , the kiwi press were incensed we dare to call them on it , was the same when BOD was nearly put in a wheelchair by umaga and that other guy


Eh? I said the Kiwi's were more like Ozies, not Americans. Ozies have certain traits in common with Americans, ie more like Yanks than Brits, but still very different. The kiwis, in my experience, tend to have more of those awkward Brit traits that tend to rub foreigners up the wrong way. More so that Australians. I've known more than enough Ozies and Kiwis over the years to tell the two apart pretty quickly by body language not just accent. Just like with Canadians and Americans. So its interesting to see how much of it is just the normal range of personalities and how much of it is home country cultural traits. One thing to bear in mind is that when Brits emigrate to that part of the world there seems to be a bit of class segregation. The Daily Mail middle class types tend more towards NZ it seems. The rest more towards Oz. Might account for some of the differences I've noticed over the years. In my experience you are more likely to run into a prickly personality with a kiwi than an Ozie. And when you do its best to deal with them as you would with an equivalent Brit.

Based on your post it sounds like you're somewhere you just dont fit in. Nothing unusual there. I've heard the same kind of complaints in every country I know from expats from all corners of the world. Some places work for people, some places dont. Sometime it just a matter of learning the ropes, getting familiar with the unfamiliar over a period of time. Sometime its just a complete mismatch of personality and culture. If you are so miserable in NZ why not just bail and find somewhere more amenable. Lots of nice places all over the world. Life's too short to waste it somewhere you're not happy and comfortable.


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
jmc wrote:
irish_bob wrote:



more assumptions in that post than i could shake a stick at

as for the absurd similarities between kiwis and americans you suggest , america is known for its complaints culture , you point out a shortcoming in service if you see it , in new zealand the one providing the service doesnt want to know about it full stop from reporting workplace bullying to a boss to complaining about inadequate accomodation to a landlord , ive met plenty of people ( irish and other ) who had the same view so dont assume yours is the definitive experience , witness the reaction last november post the ireland - all blacks match when they nearly crippled a few of our lads , the kiwi press were incensed we dare to call them on it , was the same when BOD was nearly put in a wheelchair by umaga and that other guy


Eh? I said the Kiwi's were more like Ozies, not Americans. Ozies have certain traits in common with Americans, ie more like Yanks than Brits, but still very different. The kiwis, in my experience, tend to have more of those awkward Brit traits that tend to rub foreigners up the wrong way. More so that Australians. I've known more than enough Ozies and Kiwis over the years to tell the two apart pretty quickly by body language not just accent. Just like with Canadians and Americans. So its interesting to see how much of it is just the normal range of personalities and how much of it is home country cultural traits. One thing to bear in mind is that when Brits emigrate to that part of the world there seems to be a bit of class segregation. The Daily Mail middle class types tend more towards NZ it seems. The rest more towards Oz. Might account for some of the differences I've noticed over the years. In my experience you are more likely to run into a prickly personality with a kiwi than an Ozie. And when you do its best to deal with them as you would with an equivalent Brit.

Based on your post it sounds like you're somewhere you just dont fit in. Nothing unusual there. I've heard the same kind of complaints in every country I know from expats from all corners of the world. Some places work for people, some places dont. Sometime it just a matter of learning the ropes, getting familiar with the unfamiliar over a period of time. Sometime its just a complete mismatch of personality and culture. If you are so miserable in NZ why not just bail and find somewhere more amenable. Lots of nice places all over the world. Life's too short to waste it somewhere you're not happy and comfortable.



thanks for the psychological assesment doctor , hope the bill isnt too high or maybe you do it for free , sounds like you enjoy it

havent lived in new zealand in more than a decade


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 203
Total agree. Bob u obviously didnt integrate correctly. My crowd love to complain but i think they are glad they only have 1 irish lol


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:53 am 
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Joined: Jul 26, 2009
Posts: 14818
Has the Auckland property bubble popped? - -> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... ble-popped

The downside to Auckland's cooling property market - -> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11829325

House lending restrictions hit investors - -> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/ ... -investors

Nine ways to fix NZ’s broken rental market: the landlords respond - -> http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/30-03-2 ... -responds/


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Too Big to Fail
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Posts: 4257
Location: the nearest faraway place
Quote:
Property developer Mark Gunton may have a fortune of $400 million-plus, but he still doesn't own an Auckland house. Prices are too high, he says, and his money is better used elsewhere.

"I'm not a richlister. I don't even own a house here. I can't afford one," says the businessman, whose wealth is believed to be in the $400m-$600m range, less debt.

"I don't own a house in Auckland because I see it as a poor use of capital. I just think I have better places to put it. It's in my business," he says.

In Auckland, Gunton lives in a rented apartment. "When I'm not in Auckland, I'm on the farm."

Station leaseholder, qualified valuer, shopping centre developer, apartment builder, big game hunter - Gunton has many aspects to his character.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11848013

What's the old saying, the rich and poor rent.

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:57 am 
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Location: Australia
Quote:
Despite a rise in the number of properties for sale in April when compared to the same time last year, Auckland appears to be in a 'wait-and-see' mode with buyers sitting on their hands.

Vanessa Taylor, spokesperson for the property site, says: "A cooling in demand and an increase in the number of properties sitting on the market indicates that potential buyers are taking their time and exploring all of their options."

The same can't be said for the rest of New Zealand, with most regions recording an overall decrease in available housing stock.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news ... d=11850669

Quote:
Residential property sales in New Zealand’s largest city, Auckland, have fallen to their lowest level since the 2008 global financial crisis, the latest index report shows.

The data from the Barfoot & Thompson report also shows that the average price at $917,079 was down $25,000 on the average for the previous three months but some 5% higher than a year ago.


http://www.propertywire.com/news/asia-p ... ata-shows/


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:20 am 
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Posts: 8547
Location: Australia
Quote:
Property has directly contributed $29.8b to the economy in the 2015-2016 financial year, employed 160,800 people and in the past 10 years has overtaken manufacturing to become the country's largest industry.

The industry's direct contribution accounted for 13 per cent of New Zealand's gross domestic product (GDP) - ahead of manufacturing's $25.2b (11 per cent).


Quote:
The property industry was the fourth largest employer, with 160,800 people in jobs in March 2016; just behind the health industry's 214,300 jobs; manufacturing's 211,800 and the retail trade's 192,400.


Quote:
Auckland Chamber of Commerce chief executive Michael Barnett said the findings were significant and sent a message around the demand for future skills.

"Anything from building through to plumbing, electrical design - there's going to be a larger demand for the next decade.

"What I'd like to do is send a message to immigration; this is a very critical sector to the success of any community. That's one of the biggest issues we have with immigration - we need to be aware of where the demand is."

He said in terms of property, it didn't reveal anything new.

"It probably only tells us what we already knew, we aren't keeping up with the demand side."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news ... d=11853126


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Some old news stories........amazing how long these bubbles can last

Quote:
Reserve Bank (RBNZ) says the proportion of interest-only lending by banks has increased in recent years and is currently about 53 per cent of lending to residential property investors and about 30 per cent of lending to owner-occupiers of residential properties.



The RBNZ says the overall average of both owner occupiers and investors combined is 38.1 per cent of lending by dollar value and 34.3 per cent by number of borrowers.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-fina ... d=11655509

Quote:
Across Auckland in the first half of 2015, investors’ share of freestanding home purchases was 41% and 54% in apartment/unit purchases.


http://propertyclick.nz/2016/04/22/what ... tors-have/


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 Post subject: Re: Entering Denial in New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:38 pm 
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It really feels like all the Anglo countries, NZ, AUS, and CAN are on the same wave. The blew out their currencies back in 08/09 and then rode the Chinese capital spending boom but even after that waned some markets are red hot with Chinese investor money, including London.

So how or when will we know the Chinese property splurge end?

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Every single frozen corpse on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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