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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Posts: 11531
Location: Multiverse
Ask the selling agent why there isn't a more typical 4 years 9 months lease in place.
Then ask them the implications of commercial leases over 5 years.


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:55 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
kennyb3 wrote:
Well why ask then?

I was trying to be helpful. It's important to distinguish if it's limited company (limited liability & liquidation) or sole trader (you could sue them for balance).

It's just clever to find that out.

Ultimately it's all your decision - again was just trying to help but regret doing so now.



its not an auction sale so if title or lease turn out not to be kosher , i do not have to follow through


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
put in a bid of 105 k , just short of 15% below asking price


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:55 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 580
Location: On the road to nowhere.
At 105 you are plus 10% yield.

Just remember as others have said, if the current tenants pull out where are you??

Your 10 % might become - 10% if your tenants pull out and others open up close by.

I presume we are talking Galway or limerick. Outside retail core. There's a world of rubbish out there in both cities once you go off the beaten track.

Is there parking?
Are the customers scobies?
Are there competitor businesses in the vicinity.
Is it urban growth or urban decay area.

Best of luck but I think you are blinded by a pop business concept of yield with little grasp of other variables.


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
finnie wrote:
At 105 you are plus 10% yield.

Just remember as others have said, if the current tenants pull out where are you??

Your 10 % might become - 10% if your tenants pull out and others open up close by.

I presume we are talking Galway or limerick. Outside retail core. There's a world of rubbish out there in both cities once you go off the beaten track.

Is there parking?
Are the customers scobies?
Are there competitor businesses in the vicinity.
Is it urban growth or urban decay area.

Best of luck but I think you are blinded by a pop business concept of yield with little grasp of other variables.



carparks are nearby , like a minutes walk to the nearest multi story

scobies spend money , would you pass over a paddy power unit in dublin south inner city which was yielding 10% ?

competitor businesses , well there are no barber shops on the same street but barber shops are fairly common

i dont expect to get it for 105 k , il see how i go


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
finnie wrote:
At 105 you are plus 10% yield.

Just remember as others have said, if the current tenants pull out where are you??

Your 10 % might become - 10% if your tenants pull out and others open up close by.

I presume we are talking Galway or limerick. Outside retail core. There's a world of rubbish out there in both cities once you go off the beaten track.

Is there parking?
Are the customers scobies?
Are there competitor businesses in the vicinity.
Is it urban growth or urban decay area.

Best of luck but I think you are blinded by a pop business concept of yield with little grasp of other variables.



carparks are nearby , like a minutes walk to the nearest multi story

scobies spend money , would you pass over a paddy power unit in dublin south inner city which was yielding 10% ?

competitor businesses , well there are no barber shops on the same street but barber shops are fairly common

i dont expect to get it for 105 k , il see how i go


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 16995
Location: To the right of the decimal place
Bob, you got two very good answers that you pretty much dismissed; one from someone who buys investment property for a living and who gave you specific pricing advice; and the other from someone who displays a high level of accountancy knowledge and who asked if you have investigated and priced in the risks. You dismissed both. It sounds like you've decided how much you want to pay and you're here for validation rather than advice.

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"Do, or do not; there is no try" -- Yoda


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:13 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
Mantissa wrote:
Bob, you got two very good answers that you pretty much dismissed; one from someone who buys investment property for a living and who gave you specific pricing advice; and the other from someone who displays a high level of accountancy knowledge and who asked if you have investigated and priced in the risks. You dismissed both. It sounds like you've decided how much you want to pay and you're here for validation rather than advice.



certainly not looking for validation , this site believes everything is twice too expensive , didnt expect anyone to agree with my investment thesis

if people want to disagree with me , terrific , i might come across as adversarial in my posts but sure what harm , good debate

i might not get the place , im not going to take on serious debt , i might just buy a few cheap apartments which yield 10% , i think a retail property yielding the same is a better buy however


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:02 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2561
I didn't hear anyone saying it's twice overpriced. In fact I see a lot of bearish posters on here (in general)

My reading was a poster asked to factor in downside risk if the tenant doesn't stay for 10 years. You used that response to attack the entire posting community here. You effectively responded saying anyone who warns that prices/yields can move down and up is a crank

EDIT: 2nd sentence should have said "bullish"

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I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


Last edited by Renting And Proud! on Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:48 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
Renting And Proud! wrote:
I didn't hear anyone saying it's twice overpriced. In fact I see a lot of bearish posters on here (in general)

My reading was a poster asked to factor in downside risk if the tenant doesn't stay for 10 years. You used that response to attack the entire posting community here. You effectively responded saying anyone who warns that prices/yields can move down and up is a crank



i pointed to the reality of how tenants can up and leave when it comes to any BTL investment , if i put the same amount of money in half a dozen high paying dividend stocks , it could be pointed out that the dividends could be cut

pointing out all the potential pitfalls is not original or particularly thoughtful advice , i own one apartment already , if the tenant decides one day to be a d1ck and not pay me anymore , it will likely take several months to get him out as tenant rights are so strong when it comes to evictions , been checking out retail property in most of the major towns in the country on myhome , very few paying 10% bar industrial units , there are still a tonne of vacant industrial units all over the country , i do believe you would need to be yielding well over 10% in that sector for comfort


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 16995
Location: To the right of the decimal place
The point seems to have completely gone over your head.

_________________
“If you're afraid - don't do it. If you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

"Do, or do not; there is no try" -- Yoda


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:18 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
Mantissa wrote:
The point seems to have completely gone over your head.


what point ?


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Mar 3, 2010
Posts: 2547
With a regular btl there is a shortage of supply - re tenating won't be too much of an issue. Can the same be said of commercial?

Especially outside Dublin? Especially if not on a main street? And what costs to re configure from a hairdressers to another type of business?

To me a regular btl isn't in the same ballpark as commercial - a few months evicting a tenant is a speed bump, ending up with a vacant commercial is a major issue. I'd want to know an awful lot about the standing tenant and the possibility of re letting if it doesn't work out.

None of that is bearish it's just sensible. Yes I get the higher potential yield to offset the risks but you want to do your homework on those risks.

Not sure why I'm still contributing anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 2972
Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
kennyb3 wrote:
Not sure why I'm still contributing anyway.

some good points there, probably all the advice needed.

@irish_bob, alternative advice:

you'll be grand, go ahead with it. If you're nervous that you've low balled too much, don't be afraid to call back quick with more money and show you're serious.

Don't worry too much about the details of the lease etc., seems to be in order and 10 years @10% is super yield. You can possibly even go back to the tenants half way through and propose a higher rent in return for locking in the lease for longer, so don't worry too much what you pay for it at this stage as long as you can get the cash together or a loan if needed (could even use loan to let you invest into another property at same time if there're others about). Tenants might even come to you with that sort of plan, you never know.

Anyway, life's too short to spend it worrying, or counting pennies, and there'll always be hair to be cut (i've read various articles saying we've reached peak beard too, which could be a good sign for barbers). If god forbid the business in the property went out of business, all you'll need to do is let it to another business, and see what rent you want to charge that business etc., so really shouldn't be any problems at all.

well wear


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 Post subject: Re: how much to low ball
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:32 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 273
Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
kennyb3 wrote:
Not sure why I'm still contributing anyway.

some good points there, probably all the advice needed.

@irish_bob, alternative advice:

you'll be grand, go ahead with it. If you're nervous that you've low balled too much, don't be afraid to call back quick with more money and show you're serious.

Don't worry too much about the details of the lease etc., seems to be in order and 10 years @10% is super yield. You can possibly even go back to the tenants half way through and propose a higher rent in return for locking in the lease for longer, so don't worry too much what you pay for it at this stage as long as you can get the cash together or a loan if needed (could even use loan to let you invest into another property at same time if there're others about). Tenants might even come to you with that sort of plan, you never know.

Anyway, life's too short to spend it worrying, or counting pennies, and there'll always be hair to be cut (i've read various articles saying we've reached peak beard too, which could be a good sign for barbers). If god forbid the business in the property went out of business, all you'll need to do is let it to another business, and see what rent you want to charge that business etc., so really shouldn't be any problems at all.

well wear



it is a superb yield , majority of posters on this site instinctively think everything is too expensive , anyway , my bid was turned down , i was going to bid 112 k until i opened this thread

i reckon they have it priced low so as to draw in bidders , i suspect the receiver will not consider any bids under 120 k and they probably expect more


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