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 Post subject: Re: The Emigration Thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:36 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Apr 13, 2015
Posts: 223
Bea wrote:
"As I say, its a fantastic place and would make a fantastic chapter in your family's life. The challenges arise with the school and university system for late teens. If you carry a Euro or US passport that doesn't matter; you just work on the basis that your kids will attend college abroad.
Billy Bob

Just by the way of an FYI - and this is directly from the TCD website and is typical of all European universities, in order to qualify for free or EU fees at uni, and avoid the eye watering international student rates, which I understand are three times the usual rate:


"The student must have been ordinarily resident in an EU Member State and must have received full-time post primary education in the EU for three of the five years prior to entry," to qualify for EU fees. An EU passport on its own won't allow anyone to avoid international student fees.

http://www.tcd.ie/study/eu/undergraduat ... d-payments[/quote]

Agreed. But OP has a 2 year old and one on the way. He's also only talking of heading out there for two years so I don't think that becomes a big issue.

What I was saying is that BEE policies and quota systems mean that you probably need to look internationally for higher education and that will be your expectation from day one.

Most South African's expect to have to pay international rates for their kids to attend a top college in UK or US.

This is obviously not your average Joe (or Bandile) on the street but I'd suggest it is reflective of the socio-economic cohort most expats would mix with.


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 Post subject: Re: The Emigration Thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:28 am 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 133
Location: London
Yep Billy Bob, I understood that OP has young kids, but my point was an FYI that people don't realise often when they leave Europe with children, a European passport alone will not guarantee EU fees if parents want them to return to Ireland for higher education. Two years can easily run into 10. I went to London for 6 months myself and stayed for 28 years.

UK uni fees were around 9k per annum for European citizens the last time I looked, but for international students or those with EU or U.K. Passports who have been abroad for the last three years before application (including diplomats kids and kids of those in the armed forces who have been based outside Europe) it can jump to about 40k per year for a course such as medicine at a Russell Group University. That is an enormous expense for anyone, especially for a course that may be 6 years long.

Anyone living in the U.K. now with young teens, and thinking about Ireland or Europe as a university location for them in the future would probably do well to get them an EU passport and move them by GCSE stage because no-one knows what will happen after Brexit.

In my experience, people too often assume an EU passport alone will entitle their children to go to a European university at European rates, and they have no concept of how high international student fees can be. I just think it is worth noting.


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 Post subject: Re: The Emigration Thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:05 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Apr 13, 2015
Posts: 223
Bea wrote:
Yep Billy Bob, I understood that OP has young kids, but my point was an FYI that people don't realise often when they leave Europe with children, a European passport alone will not guarantee EU fees if parents want them to return to Ireland for higher education. Two years can easily run into 10. I went to London for 6 months myself and stayed for 28 years.

UK uni fees were around 9k per annum for European citizens the last time I looked, but for international students or those with EU or U.K. Passports who have been abroad for the last three years before application (including diplomats kids and kids of those in the armed forces who have been based outside Europe) it can jump to about 40k per year for a course such as medicine at a Russell Group University. That is an enormous expense for anyone, especially for a course that may be 6 years long.

Anyone living in the U.K. now with young teens, and thinking about Ireland or Europe as a university location for them in the future would probably do well to get them an EU passport and move them by GCSE stage because no-one knows what will happen after Brexit.

In my experience, people too often assume an EU passport alone will entitle their children to go to a European university at European rates, and they have no concept of how high international student fees can be. I just think it is worth noting.


Thanks for your the clarification and I agree that is something that does surprise people.

As an aside, I think it's prudent to assume that in general where ever you at in the world you're going to have to pay US style college fees for kid higher education; essentially employing the adage plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Bringing that back to the SA example that's certainly what everyone does there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Emigration Thread.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4632
Mantissa wrote:
In the US, student loan default rates are reported in minute detail, down to the university level. Default rates are high, over 15% in many cases. This is of course partly because of the size of the loans -- graduating with $100,000 in loans is not unheard of.

In the UK the default rate seems to be much higher, around 45%. Not sure why this is. Anyone know?

A moderate default rate is something that can be modelled and factored into the programme I would have thought, the same way it is with credit cards, home loans, and mortgages. The fact that some people choose not to pay money that they owe does not mean that the programme cannot work. 45% seems unsustainable though.


It's largely because graduates need to have reasonably high salaries to pay anything at all. A graduate with a degree that leads to a low paying job that probably never needed a degree in the first place will, under the UK student loan rules, quite legitimately never need to pay a penny and will show up in the statistics as a defaulter.

_________________
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: The Emigration Thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:26 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1992
The Irish system combines reasonably high upfront fees with no loans. The first is a feature of Anglo-Saxon systems and the second of continental ones.

I think it's the best model for a few reasons.

The upfront fees are good as it makes students and their parents think clearly about whether the course is really needed. Drop-out rates are higher than they should be in Ireland but they are a lot lower than in France.

Loan schemes are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. First, given that there is already a means-tested grant system in place, there is no evidence that lack of funds is impeding access by disadvantaged groups. Second, it gives young people more money than they need at a young age and it's not always spent wisely. I saw this with some friends from the UK years ago. Paying back loans at 23 for their drinking at age 19. Third, Ireland already has a highly progressive tax system. If your degree doesn't lead to high earnings then you won't pay much income tax. If it does you will.


Loan schemes are pushed by a few people:
-academics who reckon it'll be more acceptable to raise fees (more lolly on campus and higher salaries)
-financial intermediaries who will be able to charge nice fees on administering the schemes
-fiscal authorities who see it as a way of keeping public debt off the balance sheet

The motives of all of those in favour should be questioned.


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