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 Post subject: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:04 pm 
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Im no expert but maybe i can generate debate and get ideas from people who have a better idea of what should be done

From other threads:

nuts wrote:
Well Ireland's economy has been too dependant on construction, so anything that tries to shore up that will be a waste of time and money. Our options are either to;
Boost Tourism
Encourage more large companies to Ireland by further reducing Corp tax to offset high cost base
Increase agricultural output

As far as I can see, that's all we've got to play with.

blindjustice wrote:
Remove the minimum wage
Remove stamp duty
Remove mortgage interest relief
Remove rent relief
Remove affordable housing
Remove rent allowance
Remove different land zone types
Remove capital gains tax
Remove planning approval requirements if its going to be a permanent private residence for longer than 15 years, hammer them if they sell, make it prohibitive i.e the cost for "my home is my castle" and i`ll have it looking like whatever I want not what some board of "experts" want.

More:

Increase taxes on second or third and more properties.
Spread/Increase capital gains tax
Alter planning laws and zoning possibly create some new organisation for it.
Increase income tax during a boom
Increase reserve ratios during booms
Decrease income tax during recession
Decrease reserve ratio during a recession


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:05 pm 
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would like to add:

make a fanatical move to renewable energy.
Along with wage cuts across the nation - to minimise hardship caused by this - allow hauliers the use of green diesel.
Cut the tax on green diesel even more.......

change bankruptcy laws with immediate effect.


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Remove the minimum wage


Minimum wage is not a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:08 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Remove the minimum wage


Minimum wage is not a problem.


maybe not, but maybe it will become a problem when the multinationals from the US find their dollar is worthless and switch to monopoly money
my argument is cut wages while making living here cheaper. ideally, in a perfect world, wages and the cost of living could be brought down in line with one another and not cause any change in real income.

Probably impossible to do in reality


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
make a fanatical move to renewable energy.
Along with wage cuts across the nation - to minimise hardship caused by this - allow hauliers the use of green diesel.
Cut the tax on green diesel even more.......

Using rail as the main long-distance means of haulage (directly connected to the main ports), and using trucks only for local deliveries from rail depots would make a huge difference to fuel consumption - of course, we'd probably need to reopen some of the 95% of the rail network which was closed in the 20th century.


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
my argument is cut wages while making living here cheaper. ideally, in a perfect world, wages and the cost of living could be brought down in line with one another and not cause any change in real income.

Probably impossible to do in reality


You're catching on...

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:29 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
my argument is cut wages while making living here cheaper. ideally, in a perfect world, wages and the cost of living could be brought down in line with one another and not cause any change in real income.

Probably impossible to do in reality


You're catching on...


It would decrease unemployment and increase the quality of services, in theory :D


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:46 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Remove the minimum wage


Minimum wage is not a problem.


Why is the minimum wage not a problem? A big min wage - and we have a big one - is inflationary and as we cant compensate for this with our own currency will lead to unemployment.

Take the hotel sector, wages have gone from 30% to 42% of revenues in eight years as income hasnt matched the increases in the minimum wage (as we all think they are a rip off). Profitability a distant dream, sector is fucked, cue more unemployment.

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:57 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
Why is the minimum wage not a problem? A big min wage - and we have a big one - is inflationary and as we cant compensate for this with our own currency will lead to unemployment.

Take the hotel sector, wages have gone from 30% to 42% of revenues in eight years as income hasnt matched the increases in the minimum wage (as we all think they are a rip off). Profitability a distant dream, sector is fucked, cue more unemployment.


Is the problem with the hotel sector not a lack of revenues? Too much competition, tax breaks unwinding, poor business models...

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
my argument is cut wages while making living here cheaper. ideally, in a perfect world, wages and the cost of living could be brought down in line with one another and not cause any change in real income.

Probably impossible to do in reality


You're catching on...


It would decrease unemployment and increase the quality of services, in theory :D



Anything less than 8.65 an hour and you'll be close to social welfare rates of payment (jobseekers benefit) especially if you take the costs of working (commuting, petrol, childcare etc) into account. Let's leave our workforce have *some* pride please. Min wage is too low as it is. It's gonna take a long time for people to see any real reductions in living costs. Let's not take away their hard-earned pay *before* tackling the exhorbitant cost of living.

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:08 pm 
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CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:
Anything less than 8.65 an hour and you'll be close to social welfare rates of payment (jobseekers benefit) especially if you take the costs of working (commuting, petrol, childcare etc) into account. Let's leave our workforce have *some* pride please. Min wage is too low as it is. It's gonna take a long time for people to see any real reductions in living costs. Let's not take away their hard-earned pay *before* tackling the exhorbitant cost of living.


Cut social welfare then. But agree - tackle cost of living first. how do we do it?
Childcare wont cost as much if the childminders dont get paid as much, and if living is cheap enough you could only need one person working.

But yeah we are clutching at straws here suggesting minimum wage cuts and the like. My hope for the thread was to get some good ideas from the clever people who post on the site.

We gotta have better suggestions than these........


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:13 pm 
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Country Tom says we need to build more houses. For the immigrants like. I'm no economist but... if you look at Ireland 2000 - 2006 it worked wonders for their economy, making them the richest people since Xerces ruled the Persians.

The governments plan will end up being "can half of you emigrate please, and we will give you a shout when there's another bubble on".

We can forget about manufacturing, the game is up with that. Software engineering or anything intellectual property related is something worth promoting, as things like that cannot be exported to low cost economies, as your intellectual property will simply be robbed, repackaged and sold.

Multinationals (American) might be told to pack up and come home or face being taxed twice in approximately 40 days, especially if things are going bad. If that happens... god help us, we will be truly fucked.

Tourism, fantastic, but we have done nothing but gouge people for the last few years, it may take some time to recover.

We could manufacture futuristic aluminum cars?

I really dont have anything worthwhile to contribute. Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:15 pm 
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karlos_the_jackal wrote:
Country Tom says we need to build more houses. For the immigrants like. I'm no economist but... if you look at Ireland 2000 - 2006 it worked wonders for their economy, making them the richest people since Xerces ruled the Persians.

The governments plan will end up being "can half of you emigrate please, and we will give you a shout when there's another bubble on".


now i understand the knowledge economy.
We charge graduates for their degrees.

Then we export them :D

Brilliant :D


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:27 pm 
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No bailouts for banks or developers. Tax payer has paid enough.
Link Euro fixed to gold .Germans will agree.Euro will attract huge
inward investment.

Reduce social welfare by 50% except O A P .
Abolish minimum wage.
Ecomony will flourish in 24 months . :!:


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 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:27 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:

Is the problem with the hotel sector not a lack of revenues? Too much competition, tax breaks unwinding, poor business models...


Its more complicated than that. Yes many hotels that will never be profitable have been built over the past few years.

But the costs of doing business here is a big problem for the better established part of the sector when it comes to generating tourism from abroad.

I was just using this as an example anyway. Ok, I hear of lots of people going to Newry to do their shopping (I dont and wont). Retailers there have two big advantages - lower property costs and lower wage costs. There is a general assumption that in the rip off republic the extra costs we pay accrue as profits. This is not true.

If wages fall here it would force an adjustment to the cost of living. Ten years ago it would have been harder as there was a shortage of accomodation and demand marginalised the lower paid. We have now fixed that problem.

Anyway, I think the real fix for this country is broad wage constraint - that is the biggest issue in attracting jobs here (we used to be cost cometitive, now all we have are the tax advantages).

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