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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:42 pm 
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An end to parliamentary democracy and the ascendency of direct democracy.
It would operate along the lines of "Ireland's Got Talent" where a panel of representatives put proposals to a public vote.
The panel are subjected to 24/7 surveillance, a sort of Nanny State inversion based on a familiar populist theme.

I haven't bothered to develop the concept but I've decided the panel won't get paid.
Prize money for individuals who excel may be an option, we'll see.
Maybe seeing themselves on telly is enough remuneration.

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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Pat The Baker wrote:
An end to parliamentary democracy and the ascendency of direct democracy.
It would operate along the lines of "Ireland's Got Talent" where a panel of representatives put proposals to a public vote.
The panel are subjected to 24/7 surveillance, a sort of Nanny State inversion based on a familiar populist theme.

I haven't bothered to develop the concept but I've decided the panel won't get paid.
Prize money for individuals who excel may be an option, we'll see.
Maybe seeing themselves on telly is enough remuneration.


A Meritocracy in some circles.

also sounds like You're talking G.O.D, Government On Demand is People all wired up a la the pin x 10000000000 times more powerful. Equality of access to know de knowledge.

Information is humanities primary resource. Once humanity has universal access monumental change occurs beyond the capacity of any system formerly ending with an "isim" could ever have imagine less facilitate. Only humanity has the actual inbuilt capacity for the unlocking providing access to the primary human resource, information.

Humanity is the system and this equality of access only makesthe system (Humanity) work better to its fuller potnetial.

Its inevitable. The trend is utterly clear but not for one minute is I kidding myself it is plain sailing.

The challenge, to love ourselves enough to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Open Window wrote:
Pat The Baker wrote:
An end to parliamentary democracy and the ascendency of direct democracy.
It would operate along the lines of "Ireland's Got Talent" where a panel of representatives put proposals to a public vote.
The panel are subjected to 24/7 surveillance, a sort of Nanny State inversion based on a familiar populist theme.

I haven't bothered to develop the concept but I've decided the panel won't get paid.
Prize money for individuals who excel may be an option, we'll see.
Maybe seeing themselves on telly is enough remuneration.


A Meritocracy in some circles.

also sounds like You're talking G.O.D, Government On Demand is People all wired up a la the pin x 10000000000 times more powerful. Equality of access to know de knowledge.

Information is humanities primary resource. Once humanity has universal access monumental change occurs beyond the capacity of any system formerly ending with an "isim" could ever have imagine less facilitate. Only humanity has the actual inbuilt capacity for the unlocking providing access to the primary human resource, information.

Humanity is the system and this equality of access only makesthe system (Humanity) work better to its fuller potnetial.

Its inevitable. The trend is utterly clear but not for one minute is I kidding myself it is plain sailing.

The challenge, to love ourselves enough to do it.


Could do worse!

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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:37 pm 
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All educational institutions need to fully embrace modern technologies: multi-media presentations, e-books, etc. Irish educational institutions should aim to become world leaders in this respect. We should then seek to export and even financially profit from our expertise. For instance, create courses that other EU educationalists could attend; expand the area of educational tourism.

Incentives should be available for top educational pioneers.


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Cockerspaniel2 wrote:
All educational institutions need to fully embrace modern technologies: multi-media presentations, e-books, etc. Irish educational institutions should aim to become world leaders in this respect. We should then seek to export and even financially profit from our expertise. For instance, create courses that other EU educationalists could attend; expand the area of educational tourism.

Incentives should be available for top educational pioneers.


I've thought this a long time now, since about the age of 15 ( a lot of Star Trek & sci-fi back then) and I got my first e-ink powered e-reader about 2 years ago I was thrilled. There virtually no real limit as to what I can read all in one device, dream come true.

So I second that with gusto!

Think about this, we don't' stare at the Sun least we go blind. The eye was never designed to stare at a light but what it shone upon to find truth and learn, take that a step further and you will realise all the techniques that use light to communicate or destroy can entrance and enrapture people, interrogations, Cinema.

TV even stimulates the brains wave state increasing maximum suggestibility by reducing the critical faculties inducing a Zombie like state (covered here before) you'll note as children who watch TV with head leaning jaw wide open as it reduces the motor facilities. I even catch myself doing it. (primarily of Cathrode Ray Tubes, not some much LCD or plasma...)

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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:18 am 
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Open Window wrote:
The challenge, to love ourselves enough to do it.


Me mammy said that if I loved myself to much I'd go blind. Everything has a price 8DD


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:51 am 
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Open Window wrote:
Cockerspaniel2 wrote:
All educational institutions need to fully embrace modern technologies: multi-media presentations, e-books, etc. Irish educational institutions should aim to become world leaders in this respect. We should then seek to export and even financially profit from our expertise. For instance, create courses that other EU educationalists could attend; expand the area of educational tourism.

Incentives should be available for top educational pioneers.


I've thought this a long time now, since about the age of 15 ( a lot of Star Trek & sci-fi back then) and I got my first e-ink powered e-reader about 2 years ago I was thrilled. There virtually no real limit as to what I can read all in one device, dream come true.

So I second that with gusto!


What's wrong with pen and paper?

I find the electronic medium quite restrictive and a limit on the mind's creativity.

A good start would be to tell all Irish institutions (universities and ITs) to put all their lectures on a heanet.ie video server.

Exposing the Irish system to public scrutiny would weed out the men from the boys very quickly.

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"the role of Government is not to artificially inflate house prices and we will not do so." -- Brian Cowen, September '08

"the bank guarantee didn't cost the Irish taxpayer one cent" -- Brendan Smith, Minister for Agriculture, Morning Ireland, Oct 22 '08


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:01 am 
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CelloPoint wrote:
Open Window wrote:
Cockerspaniel2 wrote:
All educational institutions need to fully embrace modern technologies: multi-media presentations, e-books, etc. Irish educational institutions should aim to become world leaders in this respect. We should then seek to export and even financially profit from our expertise. For instance, create courses that other EU educationalists could attend; expand the area of educational tourism.

Incentives should be available for top educational pioneers.


I've thought this a long time now, since about the age of 15 ( a lot of Star Trek & sci-fi back then) and I got my first e-ink powered e-reader about 2 years ago I was thrilled. There virtually no real limit as to what I can read all in one device, dream come true.

So I second that with gusto!


What's wrong with pen and paper?

I find the electronic medium quite restrictive and a limit on the mind's creativity.


I don't agree.

This technology has more power to realise human potential beyond what paper based mediums can achieve.
I use it mainly for reading, so its a total pleasure , a library in one device.
Come on this is amazing, a long way form carrying a stone tablet!

When you see an e-ink screen you'll understand.

As for writing, yes I can see paper lasting much longer for this but you can write on this device and in time when they are lighter, thinner and faster (which they already are if you are in R&D) don't be surprised your children will look and you funny and say "...paper Daddy?"

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 Post subject: Re: The vision thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:42 am 
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Posts: 167
maryocarol wrote:
Thank you sir. Innovation and Futuristic thinking and skills should be focused on. Enterprise developed and encouraged. There are huge obstacles in way of the 'enterprennurial spirit'. If you wished to put your toe in the business world of enterprise. You have Public Liability Insurance which is for starters 10,000.00 Ten thousand euros for starters, before your get a building - or office. The Office overheads are extraordinary. 20,000 euros + rates ESB Telephones. Marketing expenses. Development of the product or service. Innovative thinking and most of the IDA Factories lying idle. All our Indigeneous Irish Industries gone - not economic - run out of business because of the costs.

Only large Multinationals and Huge Supermarkets have succeded and they are given Large Subsidies. excuse spelling. Creativity and Innovation and Risk Management thinking should be encouraged. Large doses of Confidence are necessary as well as realistic proposals. Centres perhaps a Fas Centre Course just for innovators and entrepreneurs could be started in the morning.


You mentioned enterprise - well there are 4 ministers - yes 4; not a typo - in the Government Dept responsible for it and it could be mistaken for a public relations agency.

Of course, they don't understand much about enterprise - in the last 11 years, the senior minister either has been a teacher or a social worker - nothing wrong with that, but who would go to plumber if they had urological problems?

There was a group recently involved in producing a services export "strategy" and the official line was not to split data between foreign and locally-owned firms as it would highlight the insignificance of Irish firms in export services.

In the 1990's, there was some hope of developing a high-tech sector but most remaining firms are now on respirators.

The public may believe that opening export markets just needs a minister on a trade mission. That again is part of the spoof/pr and most claimed "deals" relate to past business or are bs.

We covered some of these issues in an article earlier:

Irish Economy: US will remain very important to Ireland's economic progress but a new approach is badly needed


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Give the kids and pensioners half each of the FM radio spectrum and let them have at it. Bye bye commercial fuckwits.

Much would follow from there.


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 Post subject: Re: The vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:14 am 
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Posts: 614
finfacts wrote:
maryocarol wrote:
Thank you sir. Innovation and Futuristic thinking and skills should be focused on. Enterprise developed and encouraged. There are huge obstacles in way of the 'enterprennurial spirit'. If you wished to put your toe in the business world of enterprise. You have Public Liability Insurance which is for starters 10,000.00 Ten thousand euros for starters, before your get a building - or office. The Office overheads are extraordinary. 20,000 euros + rates ESB Telephones. Marketing expenses. Development of the product or service. Innovative thinking and most of the IDA Factories lying idle. All our Indigeneous Irish Industries gone - not economic - run out of business because of the costs.

Only large Multinationals and Huge Supermarkets have succeded and they are given Large Subsidies. excuse spelling. Creativity and Innovation and Risk Management thinking should be encouraged. Large doses of Confidence are necessary as well as realistic proposals. Centres perhaps a Fas Centre Course just for innovators and entrepreneurs could be started in the morning.


You mentioned enterprise - well there are 4 ministers - yes 4; not a typo - in the Government Dept responsible for it and it could be mistaken for a public relations agency.

Of course, they don't understand much about enterprise - in the last 11 years, the senior minister either has been a teacher or a social worker - nothing wrong with that, but who would go to plumber if they had urological problems?

There was a group recently involved in producing a services export "strategy" and the official line was not to split data between foreign and locally-owned firms as it would highlight the insignificance of Irish firms in export services.

In the 1990's, there was some hope of developing a high-tech sector but most remaining firms are now on respirators.

The public may believe that opening export markets just needs a minister on a trade mission. That again is part of the spoof/pr and most claimed "deals" relate to past business or are bs.

We covered some of these issues in an article earlier:

Irish Economy: US will remain very important to Ireland's economic progress but a new approach is badly needed


Apart from the complete lack of entrepeneurial spirit of most people in Ireland and the high wages which discouraged any get up and go there is another problem little discussed. Lack of capital. At the time when most entrepeneurs have a chance to build a really successful big business 20s and 30s, most Irish people are up to their neck in debts and too worried about the mortgage to quit and set up a company. The capital is locked up in bricks and mortar. I started a biz a couple of years back and didn't even bother approaching my friends for cash as 1) I know the Irish mentality which is usually safely, safely 2) They sunk their money into houses for the most part or were saving for a deposit.

This is what has passed for entrepeneurs in Ireland for the most part- bizarre.
http://www.irishentrepreneur.com/top_ra ... 0_2007.asp


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:17 pm 
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Posts: 229
turn empty housing estates in the middle of nowhere into schools or adult learnig centres for those who have lost jobs and have little or no skills. each house is a classroom. . link together some of em with a corridor or 2 if neccessary. allocate a few of these new schools for the idiots whose financial illiteracy have landed us in the shite. send rogue politicians , builders , estate agents , bankers and noveau "developers" back to these schools to learn primary school mathematics so we will never end up in this mess again. sample cirriculum could be as follows

John has 100 pounds. pat wants a loan of 100 pounds. pat earns 5 pounds a year and hopes to keep doing so for 30 years. pat may not be gauranteed to earn 5 pounds every year. for some years he may earn only 3 pounds a year. and every 10 years may only earn 1 pound a year. how much can john lend to pat without getting both them into financial trouble.?

multiple choice answering format. for the really financially illiterate, smilies could be included as clues to the correct answer

a. 100 pounds :)
b. 75 pounds :idea:
c. 125 pounds :(
d. 1000 pounds with an offer of another 1000 more, if pat promises he can repay. :cry:






also make a few estates into nationwide driving training centres where primary school students live on site in these vacant houses whilst learning to drive in a controlled safe environment to international standards before being let loose on the roads. install a few traffic lights and appoint a few people to oversee the running of these training centres.

allocate a few empties in holiday villages as low cost accommodation for tourists to make a holiday in ireland affordable and worth it. im thinking the young international backpacker market whose only option at present is overpriced run dorms at 20 quid a night to share a room with 4 or 5 others- rather than taking guests form hotels. restrict it to say under 35s

all the above empties im assuming are for 2nd or 3rd properties repossesed from folk who cant afford the repayments by the govt. via the banks as part reward for the bank bailout. Provides for instant high quality accomm. in lieu of rat infested damp cold prefabs. subsitute with purpose built schools as funds become availble. money wasted servicing and heating old schools / prefabs w/ no insulation and heat p@ssing thru the walls can be put toward rebuilding schools program.

pick another few estates and turn them into retirement complexes with communal learning and social facilities for lonely isolated eldery not in need of constant care w/ on site nurse/ doctors. or team up isolated eldery in need of company more than care w/ young people/ college students priced out of the market

its estimated some 80% of small farms are unviable. lone farmers struggling to manage a few acres earning a pittance could be encouraged to consolidat or be partially bought out in return for a house in these eldery villages. encourage consolidation of scattered land holdings into highly productive farming models a la belguim / holland / US. , especially in the midlands.


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:46 am 
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I post the following with due acknowledgment to plagarising of Martin Luter Kings speech, and as a firm beliver in Free Enterprise, Capitalism and the Rights of Man. I do not intend to offend anybody, and in particular African Amercians in a year I suspect MLK could never have imagined could have happened, but it has!

To Be Read at the GPO

I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Four score years and twelve ago, a great Irishman, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Proclamation of Independence. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Irish who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their suppression and emerge in the light of freedom.

But nearly one hundred years later, the Irish are still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Irish is still sadly crippled by the manacles of property slavery and the chains of incompetent government. One hundred years later, the Irish live on a lonely island of rising poverty and economic collapse in the midst of a vast ocean of able political leadership and economic competence. One hundred years later, having rejected the Lisbon treaty, and asserted their democratic rights to do so, the Irish now languish in the dark corners of European society, and find their selves a reject in the European land. And so we've come here today to dramatize this shameful condition.

In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a cheque. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Proclamation of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every Irishman was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, men of no property, as well as men of property, would be guaranteed in “its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally” It is obvious today that Ireland has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of are concerned. Instead of honouring this sacred obligation, Ireland has given its people a bad cheque, a cheque which has come back marked "insufficient funds."

But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this cheque, a cheque that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice, leadership, and prosperity.

We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind our leaders of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of our democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of incompetence to the sunlit path of justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksand’s of economic injustice and collapse to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of Ireland’s children.

It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This coming winter of the people’s legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating spring of freedom and equality. Two thousand and eight is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Irish people needed to blow off steam and will now be content, will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquillity in Ireland until the people are given decent, fair, and competent government, otherwise the whirlwinds of revolt will shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.

But there is something that I must say to our people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into disregard and disrespect. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of reasoned argument.

The marvellous new militancy which will engulf the Irish community must not lead us to a distrust of all those who have power, for many of those, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.

We cannot turn back.

There are those who are asking the devotees of Irish democracy, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Irish people are not protected from gangland crime, We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot reasonably gain lodging in the houses of the cities of Ireland. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Irish people’s basic mobility is restricted due to the lack of proper planning and development. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are educated in slum and shacks .We cannot be satisfied as long as an Irishman in London cannot vote and an Irishman in Dublin believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."

Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream, so well known to the Irish people.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible."

I have a dream that one day on the green hills of Kildare, the sons of former cvil servants, and of tenants and the sons of former landlords, and of the private sector will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Ireland, a state freezing with the cold of injustice, freezing with the cold of economic oppression and mismanagement, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by their class to which they were born but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day; down in Carlow, Kerry and Cork, the people will come together, sharing their health care, their pension schemes, and their sense of justice, and fairness equally.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight.

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the people of Ireland with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking
The serried ranks of Inisfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking

And if Ireland is to be a great nation, this must become true.

And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of Monaghan
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of Kerry.
Let freedom ring from the windswept beaches of Donegal.
Let freedom ring from the flower filled Rocks of Clare.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous bays of Cork.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountains of Mayo.
Let freedom ring from Grasslands of Tipperary.
Let freedom ring from every hill and Lake of Westmeath.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every county and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, Irishmen and Immigrants, Public Sector and Private, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old American African American spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!


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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 5669
onlyone wrote:
I post the following with due acknowledgment to plagarising of Martin Luter Kings speech, and as a firm beliver in Free Enterprise, Capitalism and the Rights of Man. I do not intend to offend anybody, and in particular African Amercians in a year I suspect MLK could never have imagined could have happened, but it has!

To Be Read at the GPO

I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
........................
...............................................
...............................................................
.........................................................

But nearly one hundred years later, the Irish are still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Irish is still sadly crippled by the manacles ofadership, and prosperity.


Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!


That all sounds great but I want to know whether the public beheadings are before or after the speechifying?

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 Post subject: Re: The Vision thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Location: Boston Ma
As opposed to a referendum on Lisbon 2, have a referendum to completely disband the Irish Government and hand over complete control( for a period , say 10 years) to the EU
This would get rid of the "jobs for the boys" cronyism and would have the advantage of Ireland once again becoming the poster child for the EU Vision of what europe should look like
After the 10 years , control would slowly be given back to an Irish government that had not spent the time giving and recieving favors from all and sundry


I don't obviously think this is a possible or practical solution , but its got to be better than the way it is now


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