Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:31 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
Your solution to the cost of living is issue is akin to Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams however.

If I cut their wages the cost of living will go down.

It's an assertion that to suggest that a large amount of margin on any purchase doesn't go directly into any business person's pocket, each industry, product and service is different. Some lend themselves to benchmarking versus other economies, others don't.

To take the Hotel trade, seeing as we kicked off there.

Let's say a reasonably established attractive Hotel down the country with good trade, they've been using Eastern European staff on non-union contracts at the base minimum wage rate for the last ten years and you're telling me, they're still struggling to turn a penny?

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:34 pm 
Offline
Old Time Landlord
User avatar

Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 391
karlos_the_jackal wrote:
The governments plan will end up being "can half of you emigrate please, and we will give you a shout when there's another bubble on".


:mrgreen:

karlos_the_jackal wrote:
Tourism, fantastic, but we have done nothing but gouge people for the last few years, it may take some time to recover.


True true. I was in Blarney village today and saw first hand a nice American family being charged €6 for a bowl of soup - it came with a smile and 'diddly idle' background music but still..... Honestly. I felt so sorry for them I was tempted to run home and heat up some 70 cent Aldi stuff (which is lovely) and shove it in a flask for them. Tourism is good thinking though especially now that the whole world is stressed and depressed and could do with some 'escape' time. But we certainly need a tourism-plan that assures good services and good value for money.

Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
My hope for the thread was to get some good ideas from the clever people who post on the site.


Great thread.

I don't know how to tackle the cost of living. I do think public sector spending has to be seriously investigated (by people from the private sector) to see where cutbacks can be made. I suspect we could save billions that way. Just look at FAS - 1 billion a year - that's just insanity. What other government agencies are urinating away money? This needs to be urgently addressed.

_________________
"I once had a lot of arguments and rants with my bank manager. But then I decided to consolidate all my rants into one simple monthly outburst."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:37 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:
I don't know how to tackle the cost of living. I do think public sector spending has to be seriously investigated (by people from the private sector) to see where cutbacks can be made. I suspect we could save billions that way. Just look at FAS - 1 billion a year - that's just insanity. What other government agencies are urinating away money? This needs to be urgently addressed.


Great! More spending on consultants!!!

FAS needs a budget, it is a necessary service.

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:40 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance
User avatar

Joined: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 7120
Location: Australia
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Your solution to the cost of living is issue is akin to Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams however.

If I cut their wages the cost of living will go down.

It's an assertion that to suggest that a large amount of margin on any purchase doesn't go directly into any business person's pocket, each industry, product and service is different. Some lend themselves to benchmarking versus other economies, others don't.

To take the Hotel trade, seeing as we kicked off there.

Let's say a reasonably established attractive Hotel down the country with good trade, they've been using Eastern European staff on non-union contracts at the base minimum wage rate for the last ten years and you're telling me, they're still struggling to turn a penny?


maybe your right, I dont know either way. But what would you do to get the economy going?
Ive thrown up my ideas, even if they are half cooked :D

_________________
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2281&p=374552&hilit=IMF+database#p374552
^^DOOM ^^


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:44 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
I don't have to turn the country around.

It's all about me, me, me, while I wait for the revolution! BD

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:46 pm 
Offline
Old Time Landlord
User avatar

Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 391
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:
I don't know how to tackle the cost of living. I do think public sector spending has to be seriously investigated (by people from the private sector) to see where cutbacks can be made. I suspect we could save billions that way. Just look at FAS - 1 billion a year - that's just insanity. What other government agencies are urinating away money? This needs to be urgently addressed.


Great! More spending on consultants!!!

FAS needs a budget, it is a necessary service.



FAS needs a budget but nothing close to 1 billion per annum. And yes, I know, we don't need another consultant's bill but there must be some ethical democratic way to appoint a panel of people to investigate some of the disgraceful spending of public bodies.

_________________
"I once had a lot of arguments and rants with my bank manager. But then I decided to consolidate all my rants into one simple monthly outburst."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:48 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:
And yes, I know, we don't need another consultant's bill but there must be some ethical democratic way to appoint a panel of people to investigate some of the disgraceful spending of public bodies.


Tribunals?!?

Fine, not content with paying more money to consultants you want to give the Legal profession their wedge too, are you sure you're not elected to Dail Eireann? You've really got the hang of this...

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:48 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance
User avatar

Joined: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 7120
Location: Australia
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
I don't have to turn the country around.

It's all about me, me, me, while I wait for the revolution! BD


:D i like your style BD

anyone else reading this thread, dont be shy throw in your ideas pleez !

_________________
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2281&p=374552&hilit=IMF+database#p374552
^^DOOM ^^


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:06 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 5844
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:

To take the Hotel trade, seeing as we kicked off there.

Let's say a reasonably established attractive Hotel down the country with good trade, they've been using Eastern European staff on non-union contracts at the base minimum wage rate for the last ten years and you're telling me, they're still struggling to turn a penny?


They might make a profit but are not getting an anyway good return on investment. I know the finances of the hotel sector very well.

_________________
aHR0cDovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNvbS93YXRjaD92PU9tRXZUYTdOcGsw


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:07 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
grumpy wrote:
They might make a profit but are not getting an anyway good return on investment.


They should get out of the Hotel trade then...

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:11 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 5844
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
grumpy wrote:
They might make a profit but are not getting an anyway good return on investment.


They should get out of the Hotel trade then...


Which is where we started. Reduce wages to help the economy.

_________________
aHR0cDovL3d3dy55b3V0dWJlLmNvbS93YXRjaD92PU9tRXZUYTdOcGsw


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:18 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 22471
Location: Over Macho Grande? I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande...
grumpy wrote:
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
grumpy wrote:
They might make a profit but are not getting an anyway good return on investment.


They should get out of the Hotel trade then...


Which is where we started. Reduce wages to help the economy.


Hold on, are you saying wages are their only cost??? Let's be realistic here, wages are not directly translated into operating profits. They are part and parcel of doing business and if they have a crap return on investment then these people have gotten their sums badly wrong and shouldn't be in business for themselves.

_________________
People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:48 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 2805
Location: Berlin, Germany
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Im no expert but maybe i can generate debate and get ideas from people who have a better idea of what should be done

Maybe i'm just being pessimistic here, but i'd have to wonder if anything can really be done at this stage. The cost base and income expectations in ireland are miles out of line with the rest of the eurozone and the gap is still widening, we're hooked on cheap credit which has just been turned off, and we're dependant to a huge extent on multinationals who could cut and run at any stage, even without the inevitable clampdown on corpo-tax related scams from the rest of the EU.

It would appear that the economy has already run past the edge of the cliff, and despite moving the legs faster and faster, the downward journey has just begun. Since maybe 2003, the fall was inevitable, and all we've managed to do was make it increasingly more painful.

We won't be getting any bailouts from the EU anytime soon (lisbon won't be forgotten in a hurry - rejecting it again will be terminal), we won't be able to borrow enough to make a difference (not that we should anyway), and the economy looks set for a decade of recession and stagnation (as both the cost base and lack of cash inflow from borrowing bite)- and if we're very very lucky, come out with GDP above 70% of its current size, and private debt probably something like 300% of GDP - servicing the interest alone will cost close to 20% of GDP annually, until it inflates away.

Even a total pay freeze now would need a decade or more before our cost base is back in line with the EU (and servicing the interest on the debt will make us feel poorer than almost anywhere else), never mind being attractive enough cost-wise to get the multinationals (or even stay). We have no home-grown industries or infrastructure worth mentioning from a decade and a half of boom, so there really is nothing to fall back on.

Massive default on debt, both private and public, seems inevitable within 5 years, followed by some kind of foreign rescue operation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:20 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Posts: 551
OK, put it another way. Rather than concentrating on what's crap or broken or corrupt or over-priced - what [i]is[/i] good about this country? What do we do well? What industries or services are managed efficiently? What works, and can we apply that elsewhere?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The how to turn the country around Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:23 pm 
Offline
Single Home Owner
User avatar

Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 116
nuts wrote:
Well Ireland's economy has been too dependant on construction, so anything that tries to shore up that will be a waste of time and money. Our options are either to;
Boost Tourism
Encourage more large companies to Ireland by further reducing Corp tax to offset high cost base
Increase agricultural output

As far as I can see, that's all we've got to play with.


CurbYourEnthusiasm wrote:
FAS needs a budget but nothing close to 1 billion per annum. And yes, I know, we don't need another consultant's bill but there must be some ethical democratic way to appoint a panel of people to investigate some of the disgraceful spending of public bodies.


blindjustice wrote:
Remove the minimum wage
Remove different land zone types
Remove capital gains tax
Remove planning approval requirements if its going to be a permanent private residence for longer than 15 years, hammer them if they sell, make it prohibitive i.e the cost for "my home is my castle" and i`ll have it looking like whatever I want not what some board of "experts" want.

More:

Increase taxes on second or third and more properties.
Spread/Increase capital gains tax
Alter planning laws and zoning possibly create some new organisation for it.
Increase income tax during a boom
Increase reserve ratios during booms
Decrease income tax during recession
Decrease reserve ratio during a recession
[/quote]


I think the future is in Es - Education, Entertainment, Ecology, Environment, Exercise, Energy, Ecotourism, English, Eating ...

Are we beyond ourselves with our super duper Foxrock/SUV/€2grand handbag economy that we can't have a decent tourist and agricultural industry and sector? I think we should go back to this big style by doing some of blindjustice stuff below with capital gains tax on Ag land and rezoning .. (BJ can you explain your decrease/increase of the CGTax?)

We need to go back to manual labour and a bit of local farming and forestry. Coillte needs to be blasted apart and reformed - true reform of the forestry industry could be a part of immediate renewable energy industries that we need to be cultivating. This could provide local industry, employment and local energy. A proper reformed Coillte would have a sustainable forestry policy which would replant broadleaf forests as well as quick-growing shite for local consumption but there would have to be a long-term view of the forestry and tourist policy - we're talking twenty to thirty years in which a lot of currently unplanted land would be used for trees and businesses could fund these and possibly count them as assets on their balance sheets. Government needs to oversee these things properly.

Forestry would do something else besides helping to offset Carbon (the money standard of the future) and furnish local energy supply - it would greatly help the tourist industry. People like walking in woods and mountainbiking through them too ... we haven't enough here at all. The recent Act to allow right of access for walkers was a great milestone and should be extended to perhaps included the Labour Party idea of making all land over 150m public park area. Again, a policy of increasing National Parks would draw tourism locally and from abroad. I think the country should acquire land adjacent to existing National Parks thereby slowly increasing them. This would be another long-term job. Like in Australia and elsewhere you can camp in National parks and sometimes you pay a fee - that's what we could be doing here for the Campervan class among others. There will be arguments that Travellers will take over but (as an aside) I don't see why we can't integrate these people with a similar tolerance towards their nomadism ... Anyway, Ireland is one of the most beautiful places to visit and people come back for its beauty and we're not exploiting that enough with dedicated cycle lanes, walks and national parks all of which we could be focusing on long term. Tourism will be as much local as international and I'm guessing that more and more people will be getting involved in activities rather than coming here for just piss-ups ... Our number of hillwalkers has fallen in the last number of years from 300,000 to 100,000 because of access to hillwalking areas and expense - rip off Ireland.

How the hell do we keep our costs down? I'm thinking that some sound energy policies might help that - nothing can be done without energy and currently our economy is founded on an insecure base of imported fossil fuels. It's not that unstable but still prone to shocks and eventually it'll run down and become more expensive anyway. We could pursue an aggressive policy of self-sufficiency in renewables using wind, wave (google "Pelamis Portugal" for the latest Scottish-designed wave device in operation off Porto) and I'm convinced that Algae could generate plenty of fuel for us in the future. Do we have a decent Deptartment of Energy and so on which is radically analysing the potentials of renewable tech whereby tax breaks could be given for research or funding allocated to universities or grants subsidising research .. ?

A lot could flow from this if we get the fundamentals tackled; if your energy is cheaper maybe you'll have more money for other spending and maybe businesses will be more attracted here and compelled to stay for longer because of energy security... On the energy topic too - the recent idea of having reduced interest rate loans for retro-fitting older homes might be an idea ... if a few of the banks get nationalised soon then perhaps the like of this could work and generate some economic positives? Should we really send the Poles home so soon? Should we have Fas courses that emphasise trades and run courses that are geared towards retrofitting on a big scale? This would all help with energy conservation as well as with public health - retrofit your house on the never-never - I believe some areas in the states are doing this with solar power home installation - pay for it on the nevernever and let there be NO interest on it as it benefits the State. The State should have to pay no interest on money - NONE.

There's a lot of money falling into black holes and CurbYourEnthusiasms belief that public spending should be investigated is valid - how many jobs were created during the terms of this government that do fuck all? If I could change anything in the quangos I'd make the C&AGs office very powerful and answerable to the Opposition or to the public via a website like this. How do we know what money was spent on what?? During a boom you should sort out your shit - in Ennis we are up to our necks in shit sometimes and children have to drink it. Parts of Galway too are polluted and poisoned still but they don't give a damn because they are poor enough areas I guess. Down in Ennis some developers could not get planning permission because there is no sewage or water infrastructure underneath ! We blew the boom when we should have been sort this shit out big time. The last thing I will say is this: water looks plentiful when it's falling on your head but it's going to be the next Carbon limit; already there are noises about it because the means of getting freshwater is limited and soon it will contribute to the price of food - it takes 150 gallons of water to produce a pound of beef - yet we have leakage rates of up to 60% in some counties here !! I hope it's not too late to sort stuff out but I think it is because we seem to believe that progress and wealth means visible progress and wealth - what good is having a €1500 handbag and a 95k SUV when you have to buy bottled water to avoid feeding feces to your family?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to: