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your guess for european 1-bed rental
400 or less 52%  52%  [ 27 ]
500 23%  23%  [ 12 ]
600 15%  15%  [ 8 ]
700 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
800 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
900 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
1000 or more 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 52
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 Post subject: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Dec 4, 2008
Posts: 133
Does anyone know how much a 400sq ft 1 bed apartment would rent for in other small European cities comparable in size to dublin.

this might give us an indication of what market rental should be for a 1 bed here.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Private Tenant

Joined: Nov 4, 2009
Posts: 27
Here's a few in Cologne (pop. c. 1 million)
http://www.immowelt.de/immobilien/immoliste.aspx?geoid=10805315000&etype=1&roomi=1&rooma=1&wflmi=37&wflma=43&primi=400&prima=1000&esr=2&sort=createdate+desc
All in the 400-500 range but also having extras on top of that.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jan 19, 2009
Posts: 156
I was in Vienna recently, and while looking around the place I checked out the price of rent. Usually the price for a 40m place is about 750 -> 800 pm. Essentially, the same price as is in Dublin. The difference is that usually most people fix their rent for long periods of time. Fixed 5 or 10 year rental agreements are the normal.

Some examples are given:
http://www.apartmentvienna.at/page.php? ... se&lang=en


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 1459
Valencia - http://www.idealista.com/pagina/listado ... XX:,40:::1
Very few under 500, most 500 - 600.

Malaga - http://www.idealista.com/pagina/listado ... XX:,40:::1
Very few under 400, most 400 - 500

Not sure what additional fees apply in spain(water, waste, council tax etc. are included are excluded)


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sep 26, 2008
Posts: 1811
Location: Hey y'all
Antwerp €400 to €700 central area for 50m2 to 90m2 inner suburbs €400 to €600 (areas served by tram system) Cheaper available but this is for average to good areas. 1 bed 100 m2 apartment near the cathederal for €950 i.e. bang in the middle of all the shops, bars, clubs, hotels etc.

Rotterdam:€500 to €1000 for 55m2 to 100m2 1 bed. Most apartments are over 60m2 minimum size

Amsterdam: €500 up but really closer to €700 starting prices unless you are in the know.

These are almost always unfurnished so you can make them your own more easily

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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Too Big to Fail
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Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Posts: 4532
So let's say for the sakes of argument that our rental prices are broadly in line with European comparators, suggesting we are at neutral pricing levels. In which case, based on a 7% gross yield over 11 months rental at these (arguably) neutral prices....


These Herbert Park Apartments with clearing rents c. €1200 ...

http://www.daft.ie/2940050
http://www.daft.ie/2800912
http://www.daft.ie/2942782
http://www.daft.ie/2936464

...should all cost c. €185,000. While there isn't a 1-bed for sale there at the moment (there are about a dozen, maybe more, for rent) the last one I saw for sale was probably close on twice that amount.


Gasworks, rent asking €950...

http://www.daft.ie/2919895

....suggesting a €150,000-ish sale price, but are in fact asking for sale €380,000 ...

http://www.myhome.ie/106316

(Although admittedly these may not be identical properties since size and layout varies a lot in the Gasworks, but I think the general point still stands).


Wintergarten, clearing rents look around the €800 tops, suggesting a sale price of c. €130,000....

http://www.daft.ie/2944023

...and here's one for sale at €270,000:

http://www.daft.ie/1327830


Fitzwilliam Court, Ranelagh, clearing rents look c.€900:

http://www.daft.ie/2943063
http://www.daft.ie/2937213

....suggesting sale price below €140,000. And yet here's one for sale at €220,000....

http://www.myhome.ie/322815

....again, about 50% more expensive than the yield would suggest.


Seven Oaks Rathmines, rent asking €800/suggested yield based on clearing rent of €750 = c.€120,000....

http://www.daft.ie/2933841

Sales asking, €195,000

http://www.myhome.ie/204970


Wynnfield Park Apartments, Rathmines...rent asking €895, clearing let's say €850 = €132,000...

http://www.daft.ie/2950109

....and one for sale at €250,000:

http://www.daft.ie/1446391


Wicklow Court, Georges's Street asking rent €850, suggesting a sale price of €130,000 tops:

http://www.daft.ie/2943780

Asking sale price, €275,000:

http://www.daft.ie/1427975


Courtney House Ranelagh, asking rent €900...

http://www.daft.ie/2941966

...should sell for c. €140,000. Again, no 1-bed for sale at the moment but this would be half the price they come on at.



My search was for 1-beds on Daft in Dublin 2, 4 and 6. I haven't included any Docklands apartments because they are so head-wrecking to try and differentiate between I couldn't be arsed searching. But I would suggest that the figures there are even more out of whack (except, ironically, for the ones available to FTB's which are being, effectively, firesold, since these are the only ones priced even vaguely correctly wrt yields).

Therefore I think it is incorrect to say that for the crash to be shown to be continuing we need to see continued rental declines. Even if rents stopped falling today, all that would show is that sale prices are still up to 50% too high. Given rents probably will fall further, it's likely even more than that with respect to 1-bed apartments anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:53 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jul 7, 2008
Posts: 139
Toulouse is good example. not too much smaller than dublin. you will generally get 37 sq m (400 sq ft) for 500-600 per month depending on parking etc. You can add one months rent for tax (if you live in any type of house or appt. you pay a tax depending on location and area of apartment).
Charges like bins would be included.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Old Time Landlord

Joined: Sep 6, 2008
Posts: 367
Strassbourg 430 Euros to 700 Euros per month + would suit 2 people. Large Apartments unfurnished.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Back Home with Mammy

Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Krakow, Poland
First-hand experience here - currently renting a 1-bed apartment 5 minutes walk from the centre of Kraków's 'Rynek' (market square) for 1,500 p
Polish zloty (PLN) per month. Current exchange rates put that at €380 a month. Apartment is 40 metres squared - so about 430 square feet.

There are some extra costs like building maintenance which are not included in rent, but they would be about €40-50 per month extra.

I suppose population is probably on a par with Dublin, 750,000 in the city limits, and 1.25 million in the metropolitan area according to Wikipedia

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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:23 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 18, 2009
Posts: 2550
Location: NWUK
Top prices in Manchester about £900; but that would be very special, indeed.

I'd say the average here is about £450 for a decent size and condition.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Dec 4, 2008
Posts: 133
Thanks so much for all the feedback. I really appreciate it.

The cheapest 1 bed apartments in Dublin are starting to show sensible yields. (Dublin 1, rather than 2), So much so, that I am starting (I only said starting), to consider buying there for the return.

The key question, in relation to seeing an actual rental return over 20 years, is the Irish Rental Market overvalued.

It seems are rents on 1 beds are still high by comparison to other cities, so I guess I should wait longer or price in a lower future rental stream.


Last edited by spc100 on Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 2179
mikewest wrote:
Amsterdam: €500 up but really closer to €700 starting prices unless you are in the know.


From bitter experience... you are talking €1000 at least. Not the fancy locations either may I add, these would be much higher.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:33 pm 
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Nationalised
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Joined: Feb 9, 2010
Posts: 9019
livian wrote:
Here's a few in Cologne (pop. c. 1 million)

Cologne is a very nice place to live - do we allow them a premium for that?


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 Post subject: Re: 1 Bed apartments rental price in similar European cities
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 2177
Location: The Lawn
Are wage rates in capital cities higher relative to wage rates in regional cities due to concentration of business and Government in capital metro areas?


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