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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:33 pm 
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I'll ignore all the cultural cringe and 'we deserved it' nonsense and bring it back to Schauble

This is clearly wrong.

Quote:
"The Irish were very aware that their banks were less stringently supervised then the German banks," he said.


He just baldly states it because its helpful to his "Kollectivschuld" narrative.

What a wanker.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:37 pm 
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BlameGame wrote:
I'll ignore all the cultural cringe and 'we deserved it' nonsense and bring it back to Schauble

This is clearly wrong.

Quote:
"The Irish were very aware that their banks were less stringently supervised then the German banks," he said.


He just baldly states it because its helpful to his "Kollectivschuld" narrative.

What a wanker.


So people make ask themselves what was the point of this entire Euro experiment and now have much to cite in questioning the "wisdom" of an untouchable bureaucracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:43 pm 
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BlameGame wrote:
I'll ignore all the cultural cringe and 'we deserved it' nonsense and bring it back to Schauble

So root cause analysis of our economic woes is cultural cringe? :)
I for one didn't think I said "we deserved it". I'm just saying "we did it".

"We deserved it" is a value judgement which doesn't get us anywhere. Its the polar opposite to "we deserve to have our debt written off" arguments; you can say it but we don't have the unilateral power to make that happen without some dire consequences. So can we stop talking about it. its done already.

BlameGame wrote:
This is clearly wrong.

Quote:
"The Irish were very aware that their banks were less stringently supervised then the German banks," he said.


He just baldly states it because its helpful to his "Kollectivschuld" narrative.

What a wanker.


Maybe he means upper civil service and government circles. Baffled by that.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 397
london_irish wrote:
BlameGame wrote:
I'll ignore all the cultural cringe and 'we deserved it' nonsense and bring it back to Schauble

So root cause analysis of our economic woes is cultural cringe? :)
I for one didn't think I said "we deserved it". I'm just saying "we did it".

"We deserved it" is a value judgement which doesn't get us anywhere. Its the polar opposite to "we deserve to have our debt written off" arguments; you can say it but we don't have the unilateral power to make that happen without some dire consequences. So can we stop talking about it. its done already.

BlameGame wrote:
This is clearly wrong.

Quote:
"The Irish were very aware that their banks were less stringently supervised then the German banks," he said.


He just baldly states it because its helpful to his "Kollectivschuld" narrative.

What a wanker.


Maybe he means upper civil service and government circles. Baffled by that.

I don't understand what's baffling about it. He means those people aware of and responsible for supervising the banks - those in Irish society whose job it is.

He's right of course. How could they not be aware. In fact, they all went around patting their own backs about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:07 pm 
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banjo wrote:
london_irish wrote:
BlameGame wrote:
I'll ignore all the cultural cringe and 'we deserved it' nonsense and bring it back to Schauble

So root cause analysis of our economic woes is cultural cringe? :)
I for one didn't think I said "we deserved it". I'm just saying "we did it".

"We deserved it" is a value judgement which doesn't get us anywhere. Its the polar opposite to "we deserve to have our debt written off" arguments; you can say it but we don't have the unilateral power to make that happen without some dire consequences. So can we stop talking about it. its done already.

BlameGame wrote:
This is clearly wrong.

Quote:
"The Irish were very aware that their banks were less stringently supervised then the German banks," he said.


He just baldly states it because its helpful to his "Kollectivschuld" narrative.

What a wanker.


Maybe he means upper civil service and government circles. Baffled by that.

I don't understand what's baffling about it. He means those people aware of and responsible for supervising the banks - those in Irish society whose job it is.

He's right of course. How could they not be aware. In fact, they all went around patting their own backs about it.


Sorry. I agree with you.
I truncated my own thinking; I meant, I'm baffled if he thought the general Irish population knew.

But, to be frank, we should know about these things as a electorate. We didn't, but that's the past.
Will our current crash course stick?


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:30 am 
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Here is a thought, Ireland follows the steps of Japan and arrears cause a second hole in the banks balance sheets after the guarantee is finished this month.......I believe there is zero appetite for a second bailout after all these cuts. People might actually march in outrage.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
Here is a thought, Ireland follows the steps of Japan and arrears cause a second hole in the banks balance sheets after the guarantee is finished this month.......I believe there is zero appetite for a second bailout after all these cuts.

I was with you right up til:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
People might actually march in outrage.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:22 pm 
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london_irish wrote:
You hit on a point I was going to raise. So I've ranted a bit on this thread but, you know, the first person I would point the finger at here - is me.
At the height of the madness, and after I had enough of trying to explain my view and being heavily patronized for it - I emigrated.
In one sense, I took control of my own destiny by doing that. But now I can see I was also taking an escape route that has always been programmed into Irish society for those who are ostracized/running away from themselves/need work/etc etc etc etc.
I should have stayed and fought? But then, that was 10 years ago. If I had stayed, I can see now "the Boom" and all that went with it would have steamrollered right over me. And still, I'm a part of the systems failure as anyone else.


Nah man, believe me after having had long enough away now for the rage to subside a little, I'm still left with the distinct impression that I totally wasted about a decade of my life banging my head off the cultural mores of Ireland. The place will never change, and even if all dissenters who have emigrated over the decades had stayed, we'd still only ever be 5 or 10% of the electorate.

It would have been pointless for you to have stayed, you would only ever have had to endure the sneering from the gobtard herd for your "crazy doomer talk", had to endure watching friends and family wilfully commit financial suicide despite all your warnings, had to endure listening to torrents of deluded drivel from every media outlet and in every single conversation, and would not have been able to change a damn thing.

It was all inevitable and would always have happened the way it did, and the presence of a few thousand additional dissenters would have made no difference at all, because the values and mores of the dissenters are simply too foreign and alien to the dominant sly grubby chancer peasant culture that has developed in the south over decades of FF's cancerous influence.

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Location: Stuck in Ahernistan
Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:17 am 
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Joined: Mar 8, 2012
Posts: 1203
Sidewinder wrote:
london_irish wrote:
You hit on a point I was going to raise. So I've ranted a bit on this thread but, you know, the first person I would point the finger at here - is me.
At the height of the madness, and after I had enough of trying to explain my view and being heavily patronized for it - I emigrated.
In one sense, I took control of my own destiny by doing that. But now I can see I was also taking an escape route that has always been programmed into Irish society for those who are ostracized/running away from themselves/need work/etc etc etc etc.
I should have stayed and fought? But then, that was 10 years ago. If I had stayed, I can see now "the Boom" and all that went with it would have steamrollered right over me. And still, I'm a part of the systems failure as anyone else.


Nah man, believe me after having had long enough away now for the rage to subside a little, I'm still left with the distinct impression that I totally wasted about a decade of my life banging my head off the cultural mores of Ireland. The place will never change, and even if all dissenters who have emigrated over the decades had stayed, we'd still only ever be 5 or 10% of the electorate.

It would have been pointless for you to have stayed, you would only ever have had to endure the sneering from the gobtard herd for your "crazy doomer talk", had to endure watching friends and family wilfully commit financial suicide despite all your warnings, had to endure listening to torrents of deluded drivel from every media outlet and in every single conversation, and would not have been able to change a damn thing.

It was all inevitable and would always have happened the way it did, and the presence of a few thousand additional dissenters would have made no difference at all, because the values and mores of the dissenters are simply too foreign and alien to the dominant sly grubby chancer peasant culture that has developed in the south over decades of FF's cancerous influence.


Your in NZ? Are they not going through an insane property price buble now, the most overvalued prices relative to income in the world. Is the attidude there now the same as Ireland 5 years ago, are we really that different.


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:18 am 
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Posts: 1504
I suppose it is natural for a large proportion of people to act in naked self interest but it is up to the state to limit their ability to harm wider society. When I read stuff like this I start to spend a lot more time reading foreign job advertisements.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=177048


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:59 am 
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bml wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:
london_irish wrote:
You hit on a point I was going to raise. So I've ranted a bit on this thread but, you know, the first person I would point the finger at here - is me.
At the height of the madness, and after I had enough of trying to explain my view and being heavily patronized for it - I emigrated.
In one sense, I took control of my own destiny by doing that. But now I can see I was also taking an escape route that has always been programmed into Irish society for those who are ostracized/running away from themselves/need work/etc etc etc etc.
I should have stayed and fought? But then, that was 10 years ago. If I had stayed, I can see now "the Boom" and all that went with it would have steamrollered right over me. And still, I'm a part of the systems failure as anyone else.


Nah man, believe me after having had long enough away now for the rage to subside a little, I'm still left with the distinct impression that I totally wasted about a decade of my life banging my head off the cultural mores of Ireland. The place will never change, and even if all dissenters who have emigrated over the decades had stayed, we'd still only ever be 5 or 10% of the electorate.

It would have been pointless for you to have stayed, you would only ever have had to endure the sneering from the gobtard herd for your "crazy doomer talk", had to endure watching friends and family wilfully commit financial suicide despite all your warnings, had to endure listening to torrents of deluded drivel from every media outlet and in every single conversation, and would not have been able to change a damn thing.

It was all inevitable and would always have happened the way it did, and the presence of a few thousand additional dissenters would have made no difference at all, because the values and mores of the dissenters are simply too foreign and alien to the dominant sly grubby chancer peasant culture that has developed in the south over decades of FF's cancerous influence.


Your in NZ? Are they not going through an insane property price buble now, the most overvalued prices relative to income in the world. Is the attidude there now the same as Ireland 5 years ago, are we really that different.

Boom and bust are a natural feature of capitalism. Nothing special about this one. We would win the Olympics in hand wringing and naval gazing though. There also seems to be a cultural flaw were people seem recitient to challenge the orthodoxy of the day. So what if your the only descending view. Try telling a new zealander or a Londoner that house prices will come crashing down.

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"Those who yearn for the end of capitalism should pray for government by men who believe that all positive action is inimical to what they call thoughtfully the fundamental principles of free enterprise." - JK Galbraith


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:29 am 
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Carrot and stick wrote:
Boom and bust are a natural feature of capitalism. Nothing special about this one. We would win the Olympics in hand wringing and naval gazing though.

Would we? I don't think that many people in Ireland are doing anything beyond pointing the finger at the banks, and leaving it at that.
Could be argued that pinsters would do very well in such a competition though. We had lots of practice on this forum. :)
Carrot and stick wrote:
There also seems to be a cultural flaw were people seem recitient to challenge the orthodoxy of the day. So what if your the only descending view. Try telling a new zealander or a Londoner that house prices will come crashing down.

They would give the same response as the average Irish person during the boom years. Sidewinder is right:
Quote:
It was all inevitable and would always have happened the way it did, and the presence of a few thousand additional dissenters would have made no difference at all.

My takeaway from it all? Next time, keep my mouth shut and instead channel my energy into how to make, and more importantly take, my money from the next boom/bust; forget morals or fairness and remember that "this time is not different".


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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:00 am 
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london_irish wrote:
My takeaway from it all? Next time, keep my mouth shut and instead channel my energy into how to make, and more importantly take, my money from the next boom/bust; forget morals or fairness and remember that "this time is not different".


Exactly. The herd are going to keep doing these things, in every country. Some countries are currently on their third or fourth property bubble since WWII FFS. From now on whenever I see a bubble forming in any industry or sector I'm going to quietly skim a slice for myself in the early stages. A modest profit before it goes too insane. And just smile and nod and play dumb. Look after yourself and keep yourself financially detached from reliance on any one investment class, bank, or country.

The herd are going to keep doing what they always do, and there's no percentage in trying to educate and warn idiots - they simply wouldn't do the same for you!

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 Post subject: Re: Everyone for themselves!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:12 am 
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london_irish wrote:
Carrot and stick wrote:
Boom and bust are a natural feature of capitalism. Nothing special about this one. We would win the Olympics in hand wringing and naval gazing though.

Would we? I don't think that many people in Ireland are doing anything beyond pointing the finger at the banks, and leaving it at that.
Could be argued that pinsters would do very well in such a competition though. We had lots of practice on this forum. :)
Carrot and stick wrote:
There also seems to be a cultural flaw were people seem recitient to challenge the orthodoxy of the day. So what if your the only descending view. Try telling a new zealander or a Londoner that house prices will come crashing down.

They would give the same response as the average Irish person during the boom years. Sidewinder is right:
Quote:
It was all inevitable and would always have happened the way it did, and the presence of a few thousand additional dissenters would have made no difference at all.

My takeaway from it all? Next time, keep my mouth shut and instead channel my energy into how to make, and more importantly take, my money from the next boom/bust; forget morals or fairness and remember that "this time is not different".



Sorry, naval gazing is completely the wrong word. Hand wringing seems apt though.

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"Those who yearn for the end of capitalism should pray for government by men who believe that all positive action is inimical to what they call thoughtfully the fundamental principles of free enterprise." - JK Galbraith


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