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 Post subject: Re: IT Opinion: No concrete data behind race to build new ho
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:31 am 
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Luan wrote:
I am curious what do pinsters think are the costs to build a housing estate (100 x 1200 sq ft semi D to allow for economies of scale) in Dublin?

Build costs to current Dublin building regulations and labour rates (nothing fancy basic fittings)
Professional fees (planning permission)
Professional fees (building supervision)
Ground works, roads, provision of electric, sewerage, telephone, cable, etc
Estate landscaping
Development fees
Social and affordable housing provision
Legals for land purchase and sub division of site
Finance costs
Legals for selling the properties
Fit out of show house
Marketing and advertising costs
Estate agent fees
Profit margin
Plus VAT on all the above @ 13.5%

How many houses in the development?
Many of your costs become pretty trivial once you're building anything of scale (e.g. professional fees for the planning permission: I don't know what they are for a housing estate, but I do know what they are for much more contentious projects going to ABP with oral hearing and impinging on SACs, which I would confidently take as an upper bound on the costs associated with a residential development).

Also, profit margin for the developer is not a cost.


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 Post subject: Re: IT Opinion: No concrete data behind race to build new ho
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:52 am 
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I was quite surprised to see the article talk about a 20% margin for the developer. However, a quick google shows me that Toll Bros has approx 20% gross margin. Can anyone tell if the article is assuming 20% net or 20% gross?

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 Post subject: Re: IT Opinion: No concrete data behind race to build new ho
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:00 am 
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Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
Luan wrote:
I am curious what do pinsters think are the costs to build a housing estate (100 x 1200 sq ft semi D to allow for economies of scale) in Dublin?

Build costs to current Dublin building regulations and labour rates (nothing fancy basic fittings)
Professional fees (planning permission)
Professional fees (building supervision)
Ground works, roads, provision of electric, sewerage, telephone, cable, etc
Estate landscaping
Development fees
Social and affordable housing provision
Legals for land purchase and sub division of site
Finance costs
Legals for selling the properties
Fit out of show house
Marketing and advertising costs
Estate agent fees
Profit margin
Plus VAT on all the above @ 13.5%

How many houses in the development?
Many of your costs become pretty trivial once you're building anything of scale (e.g. professional fees for the planning permission: I don't know what they are for a housing estate, but I do know what they are for much more contentious projects going to ABP with oral hearing and impinging on SACs, which I would confidently take as an upper bound on the costs associated with a residential development).

Also, profit margin for the developer is not a cost.



Costs from what i hear are 150 - 200k
Plenty of room for profit anywhere there is a demand for housing

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 Post subject: Re: IT Opinion: No concrete data behind race to build new ho
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:05 pm 
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You can look up accounts of large contractors to understand margins in construction at least (say Sisk, BAM, etc). Nothing like 20%. Generally very competitive tendering and far from guaranteed at outset that the contractor makes money on job unless they are very diligent on cost control and claims management.


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