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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:12 am 
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Behind a paywall
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017 ... bot-wrong/

He's not a psychoanalyst. He's a restaurant critic :P. But when he wrote about her introversion and evident self consciousness I thought 'oh yeah, how didn't I see it, that's what is going on with her'. Most politicians can charm a room, and it energises them actually. Not Theresa.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:08 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
Behind a paywall
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017 ... bot-wrong/

He's not a psychoanalyst. He's a restaurant critic :P. But when he wrote about her introversion and evident self consciousness I thought 'oh yeah, how didn't I see it, that's what is going on with her'. Most politicians can charm a room, and it energises them actually. Not Theresa.

The piece in bold goes to the heart of introversion/extroversion. It comes down to questions like: if you're feeling low, do you want to then get out in a crowd and talk about it, or get a bit of quiet time, maybe talk to 1 or 2 people.
These things are also for most people only "preferences". e.g. I had a boss who anyone would have thought an extrovert. He'd walk into a room, and be good-naturedly slagging people here and there, and complimenting this person and saying hello to that person, etc., but he was an introvert who operated that way because it worked for him, not because he enjoyed it particularly (similarly, I go to work at 8am even though I'm a night-owl and would prefer to sleep to noon). Two data points that showed his introversion preference: if he went to a party, and met an interesting person, and ended up talking to that person about interesting topics for half of the evening, he'd have been more than happy with his evening's socialising. Also, his hobbies (music, motorcycles, films) were generally one-person things (though he is also great crack out for pints).

Self-consciousness, however, is not the same. You see extroverts who are highly self-conscious and concerned about how they present themselves and others' views of them, and those who are not at all. Same for introverts.

Presenting to large groups is also something that a lot of introverts do very well, and enjoy. It's quite a different thing to holding court with a group at a drinks-reception (not typical introvert territory), or talking one-to-one. You can have effective introvert politicians if they play to their strengths.

The thing with May is she's just not very capable. I'd say more important than "what she is" is "what she's doing/experiencing", process rather than label. I think she's a very stressed, out-of-her-depth, person. Her weakness is now evident, her colleagues, rivals, and opposition recognise it. She surely recognises it herself too, and now she knows that everyone else has her figured out.

She seems so far away from having a secure base, it's off the scale


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:33 pm 
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She's seems intent on hard brexit and has consistently been anti immigrant when it's not necessary (going back to when she was home secretary).
I think she just doesn't like foreigners and she cares little for human rights.
I agree she doesn't seem very intelligent either.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
The piece in bold goes to the heart of introversion/extroversion. It comes down to questions like: if you're feeling low, do you want to then get out in a crowd and talk about it, or get a bit of quiet time, maybe talk to 1 or 2 people.

The best definition I've heard is...

Do you find sober social situations such as a day full of meetings or a public speaking engagement: (a) energising, (b) exhausting.

(a)s are extroverts.
(b)s are introverts.

Introverts can do extrovert things but it knackers them out.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:44 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm 
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There are introverts who are not shy. But it's more likely a shy person is an introvert.
There are introverts who are not at all self conscious. But the kind of self consciousness that May exhibits has the look of "painfully shy" introversion about it.

Introverts are often good at public speaking and presenting . Because this is an environment with set rules and less variables and they are good at figuring these out. But an EU reception where she's with her peers is a different story. Even Farage would get on better than her ! May will probably give a better speech than Corbyn but he's much better at the chatting up the crowd afterwards.

As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:
catbear wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
If PM May Lost who won then?

You tell me.


Paul Dacre.

Ah now, don't be doxing mossy? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)

That's not what stands between May and being a successful PM.
She's very limited, and apparently not very pleasant. Seems to be not very reflective, seems to have a tenuous grip on reality, or a tenuous grip on others' ability to swallow her nonsense. Apparently low on empathy, perhaps even a weakly developed theory of mind.

taipeir's points are worth reviewing also.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)

That's not what stands between May and being a successful PM.
She's very limited, and apparently not very pleasant. Seems to be not very reflective, seems to have a tenuous grip on reality, or a tenuous grip on others' ability to swallow her nonsense. Apparently low on empathy, perhaps even a weakly developed theory of mind.

taipeir's points are worth reviewing also.



The thing is that your an Taipeir's points are close enough to what someone would have said about Thatcher in the 80s. But Thatcher could win as PM, then at least, possibly she'd be too strange to connect with today's voters. It's May's self consciousness, introversion and inability to charm that differentiate her from Thatcher, Corbyn, Enda Kenny, John Bruton, Macron or pretty much any successful western politician.

An extreme introvert cannot do the current UK PM job for long


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:47 pm 
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I don't think this introversion is really the problem. Introverts can be great at speeches to the public.and can middle through in public interactions. They can also deal with TV interviews as is normal.for any politician.

Her strong and stable line and her flip flops during the election campaign just showed her as out of touch and not stable!
Introverts can still connect with people but she just genuinely comes off as cold and unfeeling because yes she has been cold and unfeeling for many years towards large groups of people.

Look into the horrible treatment of Brits with foreign spouses, the income support rule, the minimum 6 month wait to get family in, the way she chucked loads of genuine international students out to make her immigration targets. The other members of Cameron's cabinet were supposedly very frustrated with her rigidness when she was home secretary . Shes got a certain level of intelligence that makes her useful as a bureaucrat but not somebody that should be actually making policy and persuading people to support said policy.

She rushed article 50 in and declared hard brexit and exit from ECJ as a policy far too early. She seems.to have completely ignored almost half the people who didn't vote for Brexit! Or maybe she didn't forget at all and has a bit of a dictatorial streak but but lacks the political nous and intelligence to achieve her aims. She started to believe.too much in what the tabloids were saying? The same tabloids by the way which will be merciless on her way down...

She's been brought down to earth with the rubbish election result but has already set the Trainwreck in motion so true to form is going to steam full steam ahead with a bad policy. Even David Davis.is coming across as more realistic at this stage. To be honest May would be a very dangerous individual to have in power in a true facist regime. The British public are thankfully rapidly regaining their common sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:43 pm 
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taipeir wrote:
I don't think this introversion is really the problem. Introverts can be great at speeches to the public.and can middle through in public interactions. They can also deal with TV interviews as is normal.for any politician.

Her strong and stable line and her flip flops during the election campaign just showed her as out of touch and not stable!
Introverts can still connect with people but she just genuinely comes off as cold and unfeeling because yes she has been cold and unfeeling for many years towards large groups of people.

Look into the horrible treatment of Brits with foreign spouses, the income support rule, the minimum 6 month wait to get family in, the way she chucked loads of genuine international students out to make her immigration targets. The other members of Cameron's cabinet were supposedly very frustrated with her rigidness when she was home secretary . Shes got a certain level of intelligence that makes her useful as a bureaucrat but not somebody that should be actually making policy and persuading people to support said policy.

She rushed article 50 in and declared hard brexit and exit from ECJ as a policy far too early. She seems.to have completely ignored almost half the people who didn't vote for Brexit! Or maybe she didn't forget at all and has a bit of a dictatorial streak but but lacks the political nous and intelligence to achieve her aims. She started to believe.too much in what the tabloids were saying? The same tabloids by the way which will be merciless on her way down...

She's been brought down to earth with the rubbish election result but has already set the Trainwreck in motion so true to form is going to steam full steam ahead with a bad policy. Even David Davis.is coming across as more realistic at this stage. To be honest May would be a very dangerous individual to have in power in a true facist regime. The British public are thankfully rapidly regaining their common sense.


She's not even vaguely fascist. She's a vicar's daughter.
But the bit in bold touches on the great divide in the world currently, that Trump is a part of. You think she has shown a shocking low degree of compassion. Myself and the Donald think that a Home Secretary's job is to protect their tribe. Not the other tribe. Their tribe. And I don't think she was really that good at it either.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:45 am 
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My point about her previous immigration policies was that she hurt native born British citizens and interests as much as foreigners, in fact more so if one is aware of EU work arounds for EU citizens. For instance I could move to the UK and bring my non EU family members there with less hassle than UK citizens. I reckon she really really hates that about the EU.

She still refuses to move students out of the immigration stats. Thats odd to me. It tells me she has somewhat of an agenda to position net immigration numbers as being larger than they really are.

She also divided citizens rights clearly by financial means (you can have your family members join you or move back to the UK if you are rich enough , you can even avoid the work rule if you have substantial savings and investments). That giving more rights to some citizens than others just due to their financial status, and its these kind of trends which have polarised the UK. Eventually everything is for sale.


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 Post subject: Re: UK to withdraw from international fishing arrangement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:17 pm 
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JimmyTheFish wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
newirishman wrote:
JimmyTheFish wrote:
Any foreign company could buy a boat in Britain post Brexit and fish on regardless.


That I wouldn't be so sure about. I wouldn't be surprised if in general limitations or restrictions on foreign ownership of companies etc. would be put in place post-brexit.

If the fish are caught in British waters, they're British fish regardless of who owns the boat, I would imagine that it would be illegal to land them anywhere else.


If I set up a company in the UK and buy a boat there, I can fish there. Where I land the is whose business??

Think of it this way will the Spanish govt. stop a "British" boat owned by a "British" company that is owned in turn by Spaniards landing there fish in Spain.

Will it be up to the Brits to make sure that this boat lands its stocks in the UK!!!! Try implementing that rule!!!!!

The onus and cost would be on the Brits, the EU would just shrug their shoulders and say "you wanted a hard Brexit, you got one. Not our baby to implement the rules that you want but we don't"

What would happen to a boat joint owned by Spaniards and Brits.

In any case, Spaniards set up a UK company, buy a British boat, they own the fish not the UK govt.

Me thinks Gove went onto a gunfight with a banana in this instance. Might go down well in the Shires until reality strikes!!

More info here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/br ... 15516.html
This is interesting
"The demise of the huge trawler ports, such as Hull, Grimsby and Lowestoft, often blamed on Brussels, was caused by the Icelandic and Norwegian cod wars of the Sixties and Seventies. Those two nations extended their fisheries limits to 12, then 50, then 200 miles, ejecting our traditional, long- distance trawler fleets from once-rich hunting grounds for cod and haddock. This had nothing to do with the EU. Euro-sceptics who argue that Britain should join the Icelanders and declare our own 200-mile limit are arguing, in effect, for withdrawal from the EU. It would be politically impossible to squeeze the fish paste back into the tube in any other way."

Also some info
"Britain could, for instance, insist that all British fishing boats must land a proportion of their annual catch (say, 30 per cent) for sale or processing at a British port. Until now, the Government has declined to do this. Why? Because many Scottish boats, in particular, like to sell their catches directly to Spain or France, where prices for some species are much higher."

Trying to have their cake and eat it!!!!!


Looks like the cod stocks are better than I thought.

Quote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40642230
North Sea cod is now sustainable and can be eaten with a "clear conscience", a fisheries body has said.

The fish has been considered under threat for more than a decade after stocks fell to 36,000 tonnes in 2006.

But the industry has agreed measures to help regenerate the population, including new nets and closing spawning areas to fishing.

The Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) said it could now be sold with its "blue tick" label.

The label indicates that North Sea cod caught by Scottish and English boats is "sustainable and fully traceable".

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:04 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... an-history

Liam Fox wrote:
But Fox denied that the government was making contingency plans for the UK crashing out of the EU without a trade deal.

“We don’t want to have no deal. It is much better that we have a deal than no deal,” he said. “We can of course survive with no deal. And we have to go into a negotiation with those on the other side knowing that’s what we think.”

Fox also ruled out the UK continuing to be a member of the single market or customs union. He claimed this was legally impossible if the UK left the EU, despite the example of Norway, a non-EU country that is in the single market but not the customs union.

“You cannot leave the European Union and be in the single market or the customs union, they are EU legal entities,” he said. “That’s the legal definition – if you are out of the European Union, you are not in the single market or the customs union.”


Wow. Just wow.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:20 pm 
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slasher wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/20/liam-fox-uk-eu-trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-history

Liam Fox wrote:
But Fox denied that the government was making contingency plans for the UK crashing out of the EU without a trade deal.

“We don’t want to have no deal. It is much better that we have a deal than no deal,” he said. “We can of course survive with no deal. And we have to go into a negotiation with those on the other side knowing that’s what we think.”

Fox also ruled out the UK continuing to be a member of the single market or customs union. He claimed this was legally impossible if the UK left the EU, despite the example of Norway, a non-EU country that is in the single market but not the customs union.

“You cannot leave the European Union and be in the single market or the customs union, they are EU legal entities,” he said. “That’s the legal definition – if you are out of the European Union, you are not in the single market or the customs union.”


Wow. Just wow.


Look on the bright side. At least he's no longer practicing medicine. It's bad enough him being trade secretary, but having that muppet as my GP would be absolutely terrifying. :shock:

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