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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
catbear wrote:
Unfortunately it can only take 37% under their voting system to form a majority government, like the one that May just lost.

If PM May Lost who won then?

May lost her majority.

That's the assertion you responded to.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:02 am 
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Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
Let me ask you again, who's the PM of the UK?


That really is an existential question that Britain's Tory voters must be asking themselves :P ...who is Theresa May...how did it come to this

For example jmc has said before about what quality politicians Britain and its establishment produces...but look at May and before her Cameron


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:24 am 
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The Remoaners figure out how to do Project Fear a little too late... academics now saying Brexit is going to cause famine! :D

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... demics-say

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:39 am 
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catbear wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
If PM May Lost who won then?

You tell me.


Paul Dacre.

He's got chaos, confusion, uncertainty, anxiety and a rising undercurrent of xenophobia, all of which are his stock in trade. A Conservative government would have been a nice bonus, but despite what his newspaper purports to promote, it's really just an incidental bonus.

Paranoia sells papers and he'll be laughing all the way to the (maybe soon to be bust) bank.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
There was an interesting comment piece in the Telegraph about May is not a "robot" or "maybot". She is an awkward, self conscious, shy, introvert. She looks so out of place in unplanned group settings like EU meetings. In contrast to Corbyn's meet and greets all her speeches in the election were to party supporters. As an introvert she relied on a tight group of advisors.

It's amazing that she ever thought she could succeed as Prime Minister. Maybe she thought if Heath could do it she could too.

Have you got a link?
It sounds like a significant misunderstanding of what the term "introvert" signifies.

ps200306 wrote:
The Remoaners figure out how to do Project Fear a little too late... academics now saying Brexit is going to cause famine! :D

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... demics-say

Except you've misunderstood the article (or chosen to misrepresent it) since it doesn't say that at all.

To help you going back to re-read it, I've taken time to give you a hand: From a very quick read of article I've outlined the issues highlighted as follows, stuff with asterisk being affected (potentially) by Brexit.
Code:
Food Market
  - * Supply
    - * Standards
      - * Food Safety Standards
      - * Variety
      - * Labour standards
    - * Price
      - * Price level
      - * Volatility
  - Demand

No sense that there'll be famine.

However, prices for food-stuffs are likely to become more volatile, and at point of use more expensive. At the margin, those changes in price will certainly drive changes in consumption patterns. That may lead to poorer nutrition and poorer quality of life.

That isn't controversial, or surprising, at all. There's a big set of unknowns about how it'll really pan out, however the analysis isn't being done (or discussed) to quantify or mitigate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:12 am 
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Behind a paywall
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017 ... bot-wrong/

He's not a psychoanalyst. He's a restaurant critic :P. But when he wrote about her introversion and evident self consciousness I thought 'oh yeah, how didn't I see it, that's what is going on with her'. Most politicians can charm a room, and it energises them actually. Not Theresa.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:08 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
Behind a paywall
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017 ... bot-wrong/

He's not a psychoanalyst. He's a restaurant critic :P. But when he wrote about her introversion and evident self consciousness I thought 'oh yeah, how didn't I see it, that's what is going on with her'. Most politicians can charm a room, and it energises them actually. Not Theresa.

The piece in bold goes to the heart of introversion/extroversion. It comes down to questions like: if you're feeling low, do you want to then get out in a crowd and talk about it, or get a bit of quiet time, maybe talk to 1 or 2 people.
These things are also for most people only "preferences". e.g. I had a boss who anyone would have thought an extrovert. He'd walk into a room, and be good-naturedly slagging people here and there, and complimenting this person and saying hello to that person, etc., but he was an introvert who operated that way because it worked for him, not because he enjoyed it particularly (similarly, I go to work at 8am even though I'm a night-owl and would prefer to sleep to noon). Two data points that showed his introversion preference: if he went to a party, and met an interesting person, and ended up talking to that person about interesting topics for half of the evening, he'd have been more than happy with his evening's socialising. Also, his hobbies (music, motorcycles, films) were generally one-person things (though he is also great crack out for pints).

Self-consciousness, however, is not the same. You see extroverts who are highly self-conscious and concerned about how they present themselves and others' views of them, and those who are not at all. Same for introverts.

Presenting to large groups is also something that a lot of introverts do very well, and enjoy. It's quite a different thing to holding court with a group at a drinks-reception (not typical introvert territory), or talking one-to-one. You can have effective introvert politicians if they play to their strengths.

The thing with May is she's just not very capable. I'd say more important than "what she is" is "what she's doing/experiencing", process rather than label. I think she's a very stressed, out-of-her-depth, person. Her weakness is now evident, her colleagues, rivals, and opposition recognise it. She surely recognises it herself too, and now she knows that everyone else has her figured out.

She seems so far away from having a secure base, it's off the scale


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:33 pm 
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She's seems intent on hard brexit and has consistently been anti immigrant when it's not necessary (going back to when she was home secretary).
I think she just doesn't like foreigners and she cares little for human rights.
I agree she doesn't seem very intelligent either.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
The piece in bold goes to the heart of introversion/extroversion. It comes down to questions like: if you're feeling low, do you want to then get out in a crowd and talk about it, or get a bit of quiet time, maybe talk to 1 or 2 people.

The best definition I've heard is...

Do you find sober social situations such as a day full of meetings or a public speaking engagement: (a) energising, (b) exhausting.

(a)s are extroverts.
(b)s are introverts.

Introverts can do extrovert things but it knackers them out.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Image
Caption competition


'Oh shitcakes, did we have weekend homework? We've only brought one notebook and we forgot our pens - LOL'


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm 
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There are introverts who are not shy. But it's more likely a shy person is an introvert.
There are introverts who are not at all self conscious. But the kind of self consciousness that May exhibits has the look of "painfully shy" introversion about it.

Introverts are often good at public speaking and presenting . Because this is an environment with set rules and less variables and they are good at figuring these out. But an EU reception where she's with her peers is a different story. Even Farage would get on better than her ! May will probably give a better speech than Corbyn but he's much better at the chatting up the crowd afterwards.

As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Madness of Crowds wrote:
catbear wrote:
Mossy_Heneberry wrote:
If PM May Lost who won then?

You tell me.


Paul Dacre.

Ah now, don't be doxing mossy? :D

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)

That's not what stands between May and being a successful PM.
She's very limited, and apparently not very pleasant. Seems to be not very reflective, seems to have a tenuous grip on reality, or a tenuous grip on others' ability to swallow her nonsense. Apparently low on empathy, perhaps even a weakly developed theory of mind.

taipeir's points are worth reviewing also.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
As I said...it's amazing that she thought her personality could allow her to succeed as PM (and win an election)

That's not what stands between May and being a successful PM.
She's very limited, and apparently not very pleasant. Seems to be not very reflective, seems to have a tenuous grip on reality, or a tenuous grip on others' ability to swallow her nonsense. Apparently low on empathy, perhaps even a weakly developed theory of mind.

taipeir's points are worth reviewing also.



The thing is that your an Taipeir's points are close enough to what someone would have said about Thatcher in the 80s. But Thatcher could win as PM, then at least, possibly she'd be too strange to connect with today's voters. It's May's self consciousness, introversion and inability to charm that differentiate her from Thatcher, Corbyn, Enda Kenny, John Bruton, Macron or pretty much any successful western politician.

An extreme introvert cannot do the current UK PM job for long


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:47 pm 
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I don't think this introversion is really the problem. Introverts can be great at speeches to the public.and can middle through in public interactions. They can also deal with TV interviews as is normal.for any politician.

Her strong and stable line and her flip flops during the election campaign just showed her as out of touch and not stable!
Introverts can still connect with people but she just genuinely comes off as cold and unfeeling because yes she has been cold and unfeeling for many years towards large groups of people.

Look into the horrible treatment of Brits with foreign spouses, the income support rule, the minimum 6 month wait to get family in, the way she chucked loads of genuine international students out to make her immigration targets. The other members of Cameron's cabinet were supposedly very frustrated with her rigidness when she was home secretary . Shes got a certain level of intelligence that makes her useful as a bureaucrat but not somebody that should be actually making policy and persuading people to support said policy.

She rushed article 50 in and declared hard brexit and exit from ECJ as a policy far too early. She seems.to have completely ignored almost half the people who didn't vote for Brexit! Or maybe she didn't forget at all and has a bit of a dictatorial streak but but lacks the political nous and intelligence to achieve her aims. She started to believe.too much in what the tabloids were saying? The same tabloids by the way which will be merciless on her way down...

She's been brought down to earth with the rubbish election result but has already set the Trainwreck in motion so true to form is going to steam full steam ahead with a bad policy. Even David Davis.is coming across as more realistic at this stage. To be honest May would be a very dangerous individual to have in power in a true facist regime. The British public are thankfully rapidly regaining their common sense.


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