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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:34 pm 
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dipole wrote:
however, they and BoI have shown they are well able to protect their home market against competition from abroad.
The banking market should have been swallowed by bigger European players back in the early 80s. AIBs continued existence shows they know how to politik their way around. Banks which are minnows by world standards are too big too fail in Ireland; that's an achievement of itself.

You couldn't make this shit up.

They, and BoI, went from having 40% of the mortgage market and competing with 6 other banks/building societies in retail and 8 on commercial to now having 90% of the mortgage market and competing against 1/2 in retail and 1/2 in commercial.

Now - that's what having a good recession is all about!

All Irish banks should have been let fail in September 2008 and the reset button pushed.


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Poor Student wrote:
This time AIB will be swallowed. David Duffy is there to slice and dice and sell AIB on. There's one or two people who have clung on in there but by and large the decks have been cleared.

They won't be sliced and diced.

Shite will be spouted about holding on for the sake of the taxpayer to ensure a good return on their "investment" (which is bankerspeak for "we haven't run all the losses through - so no one will touch us yet) and keeping the "pillar banks" Irish to ensure competition (which is bankerspeak for "you won't get any political backscratching if the HQ is in London/Paris/Madrid) - all the losses will be transferred to the state, EU rules will suddenly matter again and the state holding will have to be divested and public offerings will be made to privatise the future profits. And the (golden) circle will be unbroken.

As for decks being cleared - there should be no decks to clear.

The private company should have been left to live or die with it's €20 Billion hole.

How many of the management would have got their retirement then?

Would Eugene be able to afford his Trinners fees? Or would he have fulfilled his promise about not taking state money?


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:49 am 
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Some very interesting companies involved in this

Quote:


By Tom Lyons

Sunday August 05 2012

Allied Irish Bank faces a loss of about €340m when it offloads a €675m portfolio of Irish property loans.

The 99 per cent State-owned bank has drawn up a shortlist of three bidders in a sale process codenamed Project Kildare. Bidders have indicated they are only prepared to pay a 50 per cent discount to the face value of the loans, reflecting the steep fall in Irish property prices and the weight of assets now in the market.

On the shortlist are Kennedy Wilson, the investment fund backed by the Kennedy political dynasty; Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, and Lone Star, the Texas-based private equity giant run by billionaire Irish passport-holder John Grayken.

Morgan Stanley is advising AIB on Project Kildare. The exact make-up of the portfolio is not known but it is understood to be among the better of the loans books being put up for sale by AIB in Ireland.

The sale is part of a plan between Ireland's troubled banks and the Central Bank to shrink their balance sheets. Bank of Ireland sold a portfolio of UK loans with a face value of £1.45bn to Kennedy Wilson, which is a also a shareholder in the bank, in January. Last month Kennedy Wilson closed a €40m deal to buy the Gasworks apartment block in Dublin city centre from Ulster Bank.

Bobby Shriver, a nephew of John F Kennedy, advises the firm, which also manages part of his family's fortune.

Lone Star has also been active in snapping up loan books from Irish banks. In September 2011 it was one of three groups (which also included Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase) which bought Anglo's $9bn US loan book. It is looking at a number of big books in Ireland and the UK.

Goldman's interest in Irish property assets is seen as a vote of confidence in the market and reflects the investment bank's more outgoing focus after it spent recent years addressing its own restructuring issues.


- Tom Lyons
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 89991.html


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:47 pm 
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discostu wrote:
Some very interesting companies involved in this

http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 89991.html

Bidders have indicated they are only prepared to pay a 50 per cent discount to the face value of the loans,..........The exact make-up of the portfolio is not known but it is understood to be among the better of the loans books being put up for sale by AIB in Ireland.
XX

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Holy crap, the best stuff gets a 50% discount, and this after offloading the bad stuff to NAMA, no doubt a few claps in the back for the executives who are generating this great deal for the Irish taxpayer, well worth the bonuses.

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 am 
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Curiouser and curiouser

Former Anglo executive drops action against AIB
In this section »


SIMON CARSWELL, Finance Correspondent
Quote:
THE FORMER joint head of the National Asset Management Agency unit at Irish Bank Resolution Corporation who was due to join AIB after leaving the former Anglo Irish Bank has dropped his legal action against AIB over a new job that failed to materialise.

Niall Tuite had been lined up for a role at AIB on his departure from IBRC after taking redundancy from the State-owned bank. It had been signalled in March that he was due to take up a job at AIB but he issued High Court proceedings against the bank on April 5th and took up a job elsewhere the following month.


Lots more on the link below

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 30579.html


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:20 am 
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It is thought 'Sorry' is the hardest word to say, not if you are AIB, it has to be said so often the word comes as second nature to them. This weeks apology is for sending incorrect debt information about customers to the Irish Credit Bureau. Of course they are not sorry enough to compensate the people whom they besmirched, just sorry enough to utter a hollow apology.

indo wrote:
AIB LAST night apologised to about 12,000 customers after it admitted sending incorrect debt information about them to the Irish Credit Bureau (ICB).

The ICB is the body that gathers information for lenders, who then decide whether to lend money to customers.

The bank sent the incorrect data overstating some customers' arrears over six years.

As a result, some people may have been incorrectly turned down for loans, including mortgages, according to the Data Protection Commissioners.

AIB said it would pay for a new credit report for any customer affected, but stopped short of committing to compensate anyone who may have been refused a loan because of the error.

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Last edited by Magpie on Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:22 am 
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indo wrote:
AIB said it would pay for a new credit report for any customer affected, but stopped short of committing to compensate anyone who may have been refused a loan because of the error.
[/quote]
Don't they know that loans are a human right?

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:36 am 
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yoganmahew wrote:
Don't they know that loans are a human right?


And customers are just numbers?

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:45 am 
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Your ICB record contains a record of who performed a query in the form of History of Enquiries (HE) Records. So anyone affected can see who looked at their record and when they looked. If the invalid information was viewed before it was corrected then this means a libel could have been published. Publishing such invalid credit data could represent defamation.

The HE record format is:

Code:
Field Name                          Start      Length Description
Record Type                              1           2Contains “HE”
Account Holder Number                    3           8ICB account holder number
Enquiry Date                            11           8Date in YYYYMMDD format
Enquiry Time                            19           4Time in HHMM format
Bank Code/Sector Code                   23           3Numeric
Branch Name/Sector Name                 26          15Alphanumeric
Enquiry Mode                            41           1Numeric
Filler                                  42          39Spaces


These are some HE record examples:

HE42665578200905220915CCCCREDIT CARD C
HE42665578200905211449ICBIRISH CREDIT BRC
HE42665578200905211426ICBIRISH CREDIT BRC
HE42665578200905211422ICBIRISH CREDIT BRC
HE42665578200905130944CRUCREDIT UNION C
HE42665578200905121131CRUCREDIT UNION C
HE42665578200905121127CRUCREDIT UNION C
HE42665578200905121118CRUCREDIT UNION C
HE42665578200905121110CRUCREDIT UNION C


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:44 pm 
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discostu wrote:
Curiouser and curiouser

Former Anglo executive drops action against AIB
In this section »


SIMON CARSWELL, Finance Correspondent
Quote:
THE FORMER joint head of the National Asset Management Agency unit at Irish Bank Resolution Corporation who was due to join AIB after leaving the former Anglo Irish Bank has dropped his legal action against AIB over a new job that failed to materialise.

Niall Tuite had been lined up for a role at AIB on his departure from IBRC after taking redundancy from the State-owned bank. It had been signalled in March that he was due to take up a job at AIB but he issued High Court proceedings against the bank on April 5th and took up a job elsewhere the following month.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 30579.html


Quote:
Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty questioned Mr Tuite’s continued role in IBRC at an Oireachtas committee last year, asking why he was in charge of the bank’s Nama unit when he had been “involved directly with the ‘Maple 10’ deals and he was involved with Seán FitzPatrick and Seán Quinn’s loans.

“He has 200 staff and a salary of approximately €220,000, and he makes recommendations to Nama on loans that he approved as chairperson of the credit risk committee before 2008. How can we change the culture of the banks when this happens?” Mr Doherty asked at the Oireachtas finance committee last October.


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:51 pm 
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jxbr wrote:
Your ICB record contains a record of who performed a query in the form of History of Enquiries (HE) Records. So anyone affected can see who looked at their record and when they looked. If the invalid information was viewed before it was corrected then this means a libel could have been published. Publishing such invalid credit data could represent defamation.


I was wondering about that. This must be settled law, no?
Doesn't something have to be published to a certain number of people to be widespread enough to be "defamation"?

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:22 am 
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DEFAMATION ACT 2009

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/ ... print.html

Quote:
2) The tort of defamation consists of the publication, by any means, of a defamatory statement concerning a person to one or more than one person (other than the first-mentioned person), and “ defamation ” shall be construed accordingly.

(3) A defamatory statement concerns a person if it could reasonably be understood as referring to him or her.

(4) There shall be no publication for the purposes of the tort of defamation if the defamatory statement concerned is published to the person to whom it relates and to a person other than the person to whom it relates in circumstances where—

(a) it was not intended that the statement would be published to the second-mentioned person, and

(b) it was not reasonably foreseeable that publication of the statement to the first-mentioned person would result in its being published to the second-mentioned person.


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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:39 am 
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So does that mean it would have to be accessed by two different companies? And are companies "persons" in this case?

Has this ever been tested for incorrect credit reports?

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 Post subject: Re: The AIB thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:54 am 
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A big game of whose to blame going on

AIB 'missed warnings' in credit history blunder



By Donal O'Donovan

Friday August 10 2012

AIB did not spot early warnings that should have alerted it to problems in recording the credit history of thousands of customers, it was claimed last night.

It follows news that AIB sent incorrect information about the loan arrears of 12,000 customers to the Irish Credit Bureau (ICB) over a six-year period until the end of July.

The ICB collects the information that most banks and other lenders rely on to decide whether or not to loan money to consumers.

The blunder means that some people may have been incorrectly turned down for loans, including mortgages.

ICB head Seamus O Tighearnaigh told the Irish Independent yesterday that it would have flagged anomalies to the bank.

"There are cases where we reported an anomaly -- such as a borrower going from having no arrears at the start of a month to being four months behind at the end of the month," he said.

The ICB said that when potential issues were picked up by its systems, the cases were referred back to the lender to check and correct.

However, the ICB itself had no powers to alter the data it held about borrowers, Mr O Tighearnaigh said.

The errors at the centre of the controversy happened when customers whose loan repayments are made weekly or fortnightly missed a payment.

When AIB told the ICB about the missed payment, it was recorded as each case being a month in arrears -- instead of customers being a week or two weeks behind on payments.

That meant incorrect credit histories about the affected customers were held by the ICB and circulated to other lenders -- including mortgage lenders and credit card companies.

Mr O Tighearnaigh admitted that in most cases the information from AIB did not raise any alarms at the Credit Bureau. It meant the greater problem went undiscovered for years.

In fact, only when individual customers questioned their personal records did the issue came to light.

Trigger

And last night, AIB insisted it was never given a "trigger" from the ICB, warning about inaccurate data.

"There was no trigger from the ICB on this issue that would have drawn AIB's attention to it. This issue was first brought to AIB's attention by a customer, after which we undertook a detailed review," a spokeswoman said last night.

AIB said that once it became aware of the problem in May, it informed the ICB and the Data Protection Commissioner -- which oversees all bodies that hold people's personal records.

The Data Protection Commissioner is planning a wider probe into the supply of sensitive personal information to the ICB as a result of the case.

A spokeswoman for the commissioner said it would launch a wider investigation, including auditing data supplied to the ICB by a number of banks and credit unions, to ensure no similar issues were occurring elsewhere.

AIB said it would pay for a new credit report for any customer affected, but stopped short of committing to compensate anyone who may have been refused a loan because of the error.

Anyone affected by the problems at AIB can register a complaint with the Data Protection Commissioner.

The commissioner has no role in dealing with compensation claims, but under Data Protection legislation a person who suffers damage through the mishandling of personal information may be entitled to claim compensation through the courts.

Mr O Tighearnaigh said he believed no other lenders had made the same mistake as AIB.

- Donal O'Donovan



http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 95909.html


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