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 Post subject: Quinn shows The Regulator to the door
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:07 am 
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Heard from a reliable contact that a leading UK insurer wrote to the FSA very recently complaining about Quinn Insurance.

Pretty much along the lines that Quinn Insurance are no longer independently financial strength rated after their 'low' Moody's Rating (their only rating) was pulled.

I understand the concern relates back to the collapse of the Independent Insurance Company, reference here http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/oct/24/insurance.crime

Basically, the leading UK insurer informed the FSA that if Quinn Insurance continue to be allowed operate without rating, then if Quinn collapsed, they (the other UK insurer) will not part-take in market collective activity to rescue Quinn's policyholders.

The FSA can't take much action as Quinn domiciled in Ireland. So the Irish Regulator had a recent scheduled annual audit planned for Quinn Insurance. The Regulators auditing staff arrived at the Cavan HQ as was pre-arranged with Quinn Insurance. Allegedy, the Irish Regulator was 'escorted' off the premises and refused permission to conduct an independent audit ! :shock: :shock: :shock:

It has been kept from the media but all the necessary circles are fully aware of this stand-off.

Now the question needs to be asked - why is an insurer operating in Ireland allowed act in this manner? :roll:

The UK insurer who referred Quinn Insurance to the FSA is currently considering moving operations from the UK to either Switzerland or Ireland for tax reasons.

I can't believe the Irish Regulators are allowing this behaviour. More importantly, if Quinn goes tits up, if the Irish Regulator is proven to have been negligent and relaxed in addressing the problems in the past, other insurers within the state will refuse to assist in the clean-up exercise.

The entire insurance industry is talking about this event and not a single sign of action from the Regulator or the Irish Insurance Federation.


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 Post subject: Re: Quinn shows The Regulator to the door
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:42 am 
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Bloody heck. Banana republic stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:15 am 
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if this is true then it calls into question why we have a regulator in the first place! If true Quinn should be barred from writing new business immediately

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:29 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Posts: 5119
According to todays Indo, Quinn are now the biggest insurer in Ireland.

Is it possible that Quinn could actually go belly up? I mean, Sean Quinn has already lost E1 billion on his Anglo CFD parlay and now has another E1 billion spent on shares. Joe Lewis lost the same amount in Bear Stearns and it was worldwide news.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:53 am 
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Have look here:

http://www.ifsra.ie/data/pub_files/Stat ... NAL%20.pdf

This is from a 2006 report, but it gives a flavour of Quinns attitude to risk. Go to pages 106-107 (55 in the PDF doc.)

Total liabilities: €1.60bn
Govt. securities (i.e. bonds). €0.01bn
Stocks, Shares: €0.60bn
Property: €0.25bn
Cash: €0.40bn
Debtors: €0.20bn

Now compare with AXA:

Total liabilities: €2.00bn
Govt. securities (i.e. bonds). €1.40bn
Stocks, Shares: €0.35bn
Property: €0.01bn
Cash: €0.11bn
Debtors: €0.01bn

See the difference? Recast as % asset allocation:

Shares:
AXA: 17%
Quinn-Direct: 38%

Govt. bonds:
AXA: 70%
Quinn: <1%

Property:
Axa: <1%
Quinn: 16%

Cash:
Axa: 6%
Quinn: 25%


Quinn has more than 50% in risky and/or illiquid assets. Axa less than 20%

Also, what is with the high debtors/outstanding accounts figure for Quinn at 13% of liabilities? A capital crisis would leave them in a pickle.


Just wanted to add something on the liability side. Quinn had P&L reserves fo €0.40bn or 25% of total liabilities, pluse top tier capital of €0.02bn. AXA have around €0.46 or about 23%. So the are both playing with a similar amount of risk capital.


Last edited by geckko on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:56 am 
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geckko wrote:
Have look here:

http://www.ifsra.ie/data/pub_files/Stat ... NAL%20.pdf

This is from a 2006 report, but it gives a flavour of Quinns attitude to risk. Go to pages 106-107 (55 in the PDF doc.)



:shock: I have my health insurance with that guy.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:26 am 
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BertieBasher wrote:
geckko wrote:
Have look here:

http://www.ifsra.ie/data/pub_files/Stat ... NAL%20.pdf

This is from a 2006 report, but it gives a flavour of Quinns attitude to risk. Go to pages 106-107 (55 in the PDF doc.)



:shock: I have my health insurance with that guy.


Me too ... :shock:

Anyone familiar with the procedure for returning to VHI ? :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:34 am 
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Posts: 3370
This might have the makings for a good piece of investigative journalism. Check the numbers with the help of a specialist on insurance co. balance sheets, approach Quinn with some questions. Enquire with other insurers about their approach to investment strategy and risk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:35 am 
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Location: BubbleBurst Ireland
Proximo wrote:
BertieBasher wrote:
geckko wrote:
Have look here:

http://www.ifsra.ie/data/pub_files/Stat ... NAL%20.pdf

This is from a 2006 report, but it gives a flavour of Quinns attitude to risk. Go to pages 106-107 (55 in the PDF doc.)



:shock: I have my health insurance with that guy.


Me too ... :shock:

Anyone familiar with the procedure for returning to VHI ? :(


Im sure VHI will tell you how to switch but I think they are more expensive than Vivas or Hibernian or whatever its called so it may be worth your while checking them out too. Im with Viva Hib as I think its cheaper than VHI but equivelant or better cover whereas Quinn Healthcare were arguing with consultants over fees. Hmmm not good.

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 Post subject: Re: Quinn shows The Regulator to the door
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:44 am 
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Max Headroom wrote:
I can't believe the Irish Regulators are allowing this behaviour.


I can . Have the UK Insurer complained to the EU Internal Market people ...Oh WAIT :shock: !!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:47 am 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 155
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I'm with Quinn too, and after hearing this and similar stories am just about ready to flip over to VHI. Does anyone know if I can just cancel straight away or if there are any other terms and conditions?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:49 am 
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Posts: 610
Proximo wrote:
BertieBasher wrote:
geckko wrote:
Have look here:

http://www.ifsra.ie/data/pub_files/Stat ... NAL%20.pdf

This is from a 2006 report, but it gives a flavour of Quinns attitude to risk. Go to pages 106-107 (55 in the PDF doc.)



:shock: I have my health insurance with that guy.


Me too ... :shock:

Anyone familiar with the procedure for returning to VHI ? :(


Hope you guys are in the best of health. Insurance is a scary product to buy because you really can't judge the quality of service provided until something bad happens. Quinn really seem shoddy.

Anicdotally, my younger brother (goes 19 in October) has a very dodgy arrangement with Quinn Direct (car insurance). He is insured on a 1L which sits in a field while he drives a 2+L uninsured muscle car. Quinn have told him that he is covered by opendrive on this 2nd car. My father didnt believe him and rang Quinn and they told him the same thing. I really really don't want to see it tested though. It seems like madness.


Last edited by groom1 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:53 am 
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Posts: 3370
Quote:
he drives a 2+L uninsured mussel car


Hmmmm. Smells fishy alright... :wink:

Now, where's my coat?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Posts: 11937
He may have some form of third party Opendrive off his 1L Full Comp but I suspect the Opendrive policy only applies

a) If he does not own the 2L
b) If he has permission from the owner ( who is not him )
c) owner of 2L may not be father mother first cousin or greatuncle .
d) Opendrive applies for no more than 1 month of the year ( to be notified to Quinn in advance 8) in many cases )

Have you read all the T&Cs in detail .

http://www.quinn-direct.co.uk/car/faqs.html

Quote:
# Am I covered to drive other cars?

Provided you have a full EU licence, most of our policies cover the policyholder to drive someone else's car for third party only cover. Other restrictions may apply, please refer to your policy documents to confirm if this extension applies.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31300
Location: Tullamore
The other car should also be insured by its owner in its own right.


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