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 Post subject: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:44 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

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WITH six State-backed banks preparing to join the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), the fear had always been that a major foreign-owned lender would pull support from developers first -- creating a domino effect across the troubled banking and property sectors.

However, most, including Ulster Bank, KBC and Bank of Scotland (Ireland), had indicated that they would co-operate closely with NAMA in working out risky property loans.

One exception was ACC Bank, the former State-owned agricultural lender acquired by Dutch financial services giant Rabobank 2002. The Utrecht-based bank had signalled in recent months that it was not prepared to wait around as other banks held the hands of developers all the way to NAMA.

ACC is tiny with only €6.5bn out on loan to customers. But its aggressive stance has sent shockwaves through the banking system.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 28768.html

Em, since we are picking up the tab at the end of the day, surely this is the best approach. I know my bro would be feeling the heat at this stage if I was paying off his credit card bill (which I wouldn't be :twisted: )

Quote:
"We've always stated that NAMA is about protecting the economy, not developers," a spokesman for the Department of Finance said. However, he declined to comment on individual cases.
There is no emoticon for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:29 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 210
Location: Spinning in Infinity
Those jealous foreigners are determined to ruin our wonderful country with thier weird notions that debt should be repaid.
If they hadn't interfered with our special miracle economy, everything would still be perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:03 am 
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Hopefully some of these ACC deals with give an early indication of the discount than NAMA should pay


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:23 am 
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Best news yet for stifling NAMA?


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:08 am 
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jcsmith wrote:
Best news yet for stifling NAMA?


This type of thing, Green/FG/Labour opposition and a "concerned citizen" bringing a constitutional challenge would ensure NAMA never sees the light of day.


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:41 am 
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johnnyskeleton wrote:
jcsmith wrote:
Best news yet for stifling NAMA?


This type of thing, Green/FG/Labour opposition and a "concerned citizen" bringing a constitutional challenge would ensure NAMA never sees the light of day.
I wonder will the NAMA bill be referred to the Supreme Court by the President to insulate it against subsequent challenge? If not, who would have standing to challenge the Act apart from the banks and possibly developers?

As regards the rest, if the Greens were to pull out of Government post Lisbon but pre-budget then perhaps we have a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:50 pm 
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jcsmith wrote:
As regards the rest, if the Greens were to pull out of Government post Lisbon but pre-budget then perhaps we have a chance.


I've been in touch with the greens, I've been told Senator Dan Boyle will get back to me with a response. The short version of what I said was 'oppose NAMA'.

If I do hear anything back, I'll post it.

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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Nearly a third of ACC loans past due or impaired
Sunday, July 19, 2009 By David Clerkin, Markets Correspondent
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story ... qqqx=1.asp

Almost a third of ACC Bank’s outstanding loans are overdue or impaired, according to figures provided by the bank.

ACC, the former state owned institution that is now part of the Dutch Rabobank group, said past due or impaired loans had risen from 14 per cent of its €6 billion loan book at the end of 2007 to 30 per cent by the end of 2008.
The bank defines impaired loans as those from which the future expected cashflow will be worth less than the current amount outstanding.
The percentage of loans that are overdue or impaired would rise from 30 per cent to 34 per cent if the bank had not renegotiated loans of €252 million, which it said would have been past due at the end of December if their terms had not been changed to reflect a change in the borrower’s circumstances.
>>>

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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:16 pm 
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jcsmith wrote:
johnnyskeleton wrote:
jcsmith wrote:
Best news yet for stifling NAMA?


This type of thing, Green/FG/Labour opposition and a "concerned citizen" bringing a constitutional challenge would ensure NAMA never sees the light of day.
I wonder will the NAMA bill be referred to the Supreme Court by the President to insulate it against subsequent challenge? If not, who would have standing to challenge the Act apart from the banks and possibly developers?


Most likely a developer, who only really has the best interests of the country at heart would do it, or else a crusty like Crotty (responsible for the constitutional challenge which requires a referendum for each new EU treaty).


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Green Bear wrote:
Quote:
Nearly a third of ACC loans past due or impaired
Sunday, July 19, 2009 By David Clerkin, Markets Correspondent
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story ... qqqx=1.asp

Almost a third of ACC Bank’s outstanding loans are overdue or impaired, according to figures provided by the bank.

ACC, the former state owned institution that is now part of the Dutch Rabobank group, said past due or impaired loans had risen from 14 per cent of its €6 billion loan book at the end of 2007 to 30 per cent by the end of 2008.
The bank defines impaired loans as those from which the future expected cashflow will be worth less than the current amount outstanding.
The percentage of loans that are overdue or impaired would rise from 30 per cent to 34 per cent if the bank had not renegotiated loans of €252 million, which it said would have been past due at the end of December if their terms had not been changed to reflect a change in the borrower’s circumstances.
>>>


Would it be fair to say that the reason ACC have 33% impairments compared to the single figure impairments quoted by other banks has nothing to do with the quality of their loan book and everything to do with their honesty in reporting their losses? In which case, would it be fair to assume that the other banks which engaged in commercial and development property lending have at least 30% impairments as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:49 pm 
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johnnyskeleton wrote:
Would it be fair to say that the reason ACC have 33% impairments compared to the single figure impairments quoted by other banks has nothing to do with the quality of their loan book and everything to do with their honesty in reporting their losses? In which case, would it be fair to assume that the other banks which engaged in commercial and development property lending have at least 30% impairments as well?

sounds about right.
How aggressive were the other banks compared to ACC?
When did ACC get in to the lending game? Are their loans closer to "ground zero"?


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Quote:
ACC Bank to review operations due to current economic climate
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 99716.html

ACC Bank, which was bought from the Government by Rabobank in 2002, closed seven branches in Leinster and Munster earlier this year as it said it would focus on business customers.
It said last autumn that it would invest in new branches in Cork, Kilkenny and Limerick and would refurbish other offices.
The bank, which had 32 branches last year, said it would still open current and deposit accounts for business customers who do not need cash services.


They would probably have been a bit more aggressive to gain market share at a late stage of the boom (T-4 years)

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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Green Bear wrote:
Quote:
ACC Bank to review operations due to current economic climate
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 99716.html

ACC Bank, which was bought from the Government by Rabobank in 2002, closed seven branches in Leinster and Munster earlier this year as it said it would focus on business customers.
It said last autumn that it would invest in new branches in Cork, Kilkenny and Limerick and would refurbish other offices.
The bank, which had 32 branches last year, said it would still open current and deposit accounts for business customers who do not need cash services.


They would probably have been a bit more aggressive to gain market share at a late stage of the boom (T-4 years)


More likely their dutch auditors have not been in providing consulting services as to how to get the loan book looking okay for when the audit team comes around.

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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:43 pm 
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a bit drunk as on holiday......but from what I heard today on the radio.......... examinership will mean that carroll related business's since they have gone in to examinership will buy 100 (over 3 months)days of protection from creditors which I am thinking will mean that will give NAMA time to "kick in" and be in place by late september early october.....take carrolls debts and transfer them to the tax payer from the banks like all the rest the Banks property debts


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 Post subject: Re: Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Posts: 160
Bill wrote:
a bit drunk as on holiday......but from what I heard today on the radio.......... examinership will mean that carroll related business's since they have gone in to examinership will buy 100 (over 3 months)days of protection from creditors which I am thinking will mean that will give NAMA time to "kick in" and be in place by late september early october.....take carrolls debts and transfer them to the tax payer from the banks like all the rest the Banks property debts


A bit drunk as well. Unemployed.

Is there any way we can delay NAMA? The longer we can forestall it. The more preposterous the valuations of the 'long term value' of the loans they allegedly want to purchase is.

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