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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Its years behind SpaceX, Blue Origin are the ones to watch but even they don't reach orbit until 2020

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:14 pm 
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the dude wrote:
tulip wrote:
More private Rocketry this time from NZ

World’s first orbital-class rocket launch from a private launch site

Quote:
The Electron rocket is a relatively small vehicle, at 17 meters tall and with a diameter of 1.2 meters. Nine oxygen-kerosene "Rutherford" engines power the vehicle, each with 34,500 pounds of thrust at liftoff. (That is a little less than one-fifth the thrust of each of the nine Merlin 1-D engines that power SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket). When fully functional, the rocket will be able to send up to 150kg to a Sun-synchronous orbit 500km above the Earth.


What is this, A ROCKET FOR ANTS !!!


It's a rocket for people who can't sum good and want to do other things good too

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:18 am 
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https://youtu.be/GrP3jHuLQ9o
Beautiful 4K footage of the last 1st Stage recovery

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Quote:
My point is that SpaceX is bluffing and lying when it claims the ability to “disrupt” the space launch business or become the dominant global player in that sector. What is especially sad to see is the number of otherwise intelligent people who are willing to treat the press releases of that company as holy gospel. Then again the USA is full of self-delusional types who are confident of becoming multi-millionaires within the next decade. To summarize, the long-term (and even medium-term) business model of SpaceX is a confidence scam based on rosy and polished presentations combined with exhortations to positive thinking. And that is why I called it a quintessentially american fraud.

https://dissention.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... can-fraud/


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:36 pm 
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dkin wrote:
Quote:
My point is that SpaceX is bluffing and lying when it claims the ability to “disrupt” the space launch business or become the dominant global player in that sector. What is especially sad to see is the number of otherwise intelligent people who are willing to treat the press releases of that company as holy gospel. Then again the USA is full of self-delusional types who are confident of becoming multi-millionaires within the next decade. To summarize, the long-term (and even medium-term) business model of SpaceX is a confidence scam based on rosy and polished presentations combined with exhortations to positive thinking. And that is why I called it a quintessentially american fraud.

https://dissention.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... can-fraud/

Well, that's just nonsense! More of the Tesla is a Ponzi scheme bull.

SpaceX are demonstrably disrupting the space launch business.

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Where's the fraud, who is the victim, NASA ? people buying cheap launches ?

SpaceX is a private company that makes a profit most years, nobody is being scammed, in fact anyone launching with SpaceX has saved millions, in NASA's case its billions and for the US military it will also be billions

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Last edited by the dude on Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:58 pm 
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I tend to agree, I'm not anti SpaceX. I think they do offer cost benefits over Orbital ATK, NASA etc. who have become inefficient bloated bureaucracies. Just an interesting alternative viewpoint.


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:32 pm 
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https://dissention.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... can-fraud/

At least the blog is appropriately titled: Playing Devil's Advocate......


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:57 am 
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The guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

1 The business case of a company does not depend on achieving regular engineering breakthroughs or refusing to use government money/research. Apple did not invent the GUI or smartphone, and most developments in major aerospace companies were based on military funding and research. (In any case, if he's not impressed by vertical powered landing of orbital-class stages and developing engines with unmatched thrust-to-weight ratios, then he won't be impressed by Red Dragon or cislunar flight. Much of SpaceX's achievements are due to incremental improvements and the willingness to take risks by applying newer, more cost-effective techniques than their risk averse competitors.)

And SpaceX is already the cheapest launch provider, even without reuse.

2 Most rockets currently used by Russia were originally developed as ICBMs, so reuse was never a high priority. Developing rockets/rocket engines is incredibly expensive, especially if you have short production runs. This is why the former USSR has extended the production run of old designs whose development costs were paid long ago by the military. Few organisations have attempted to design an engine for reliability, long life, reusability, and redundancy. You can determine engine reliability by testing, and you could argue that new engines might be less reliable than used ones (bathtub curve) .
However, it is possible that reuse could affect reliability. It is also possible that reuse cannot be achieved economically (as was the case for the Space Shuttle.) There is an interesting question about the economics of reuse versus mass production (reuse reduces the advantages of mass production and hence the ability to offset development costs). Success is not guaranteed, but I would not bet against SpaceX achieving its goal.

3 Some people have mortgages that are only 20 percent of their gross income, that doesn't mean it's unimportant. And while launch costs are less significant for a one-off, high cost spacecraft like the James Webb Telescope, they make a big difference to systems that use a large number of identical satellites, like Iridium.

4 and 5 He does not understand the commercial launch sector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_launch_market_competition The US lost virtually all of this market to Europe in the 1980s due to the high cost of the Space Shuttle (and later ULA rockets) compared to Ariane; the Russians grabbed some of this market after the fall of communism; now SpaceX appears set to dominate. Lobbying and high entry costs have protected ULA from competing with SpaceX on (non-COTS) government contracts, but SpaceX has begun to win USAF and NASA contracts.
In the near term, SpaceX will never get Russian or Chinese government launches, but the Russian space sector will shrink due to the loss of commercial contracts to SpaceX. If reuse is achieved, Russia, China and Europe will have to throw money at the sector to copy SpaceX or die. The real dangers to SpaceX are Blue Origin (Jeff Bezos has much deeper pockets and can withstand heavy losses for decades) and Elon's more grandiose plans (the ITS is an incredibly risky proposition).

And as for not disrupting the space sector, ULA has had to slash its workforce, halve its launch prices, and announce that its next rocket would be partially reusable.


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:46 pm 
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SpaceX has just won it's third military contract, which will be completed before the earlier two. In August it will launch the Air Force's super secret "mini shuttle" X-37B. No-one really knows what the X-37B does. Spying is considered the most likely purpose. Previous SpaceX government contracts were from NASA and others.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/7/15751 ... h-contract


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Air Force/Taxpayers save $300M+ with every Space X launch as compared with ULA. Call that a repayment of subsidies............

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06 ... ch-prices/


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:33 am 
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For anyone not with the familiarity of the X37b.

https://www.space.com/36101-x-37b-military-space-plane-nears-record.html


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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:09 am 
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Another SpaceX first this weekend: 2 launches and recovery of the 1st stage in 48 hours.

1st Launch at 18:00 UTC from the East coast Kennedy Space Centre Launch site on Friday June 23rd with landing back on land.

Then

2nd Launch on Sunday 25th from the West coast site @ Vandenberg at 20:25 UTC with landing on the Drone ship.

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:22 pm 
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Terra Incognita wrote:
Another SpaceX first this weekend: 2 launches and recovery of the 1st stage in 48 hours.

1st Launch at 18:00 UTC from the East coast Kennedy Space Centre Launch site on Friday June 23rd with landing back on land.

Then

2nd Launch on Sunday 25th from the West coast site @ Vandenberg at 20:25 UTC with landing on the Drone ship.

Another launch this Sunday will make it three launces in 9 days 8DD

They recovered the last two booseters bringing the total number of recovered satges to 13.

As the next satelite is very heavy no attempt will be made to recover Sundays booseter.

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 Post subject: Re: SpaceX - The Quest For Mars
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:09 pm 
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http://uk.businessinsider.com/spacex-reusable-rocket-launch-costs-profits-2017-6/#spacexs-go-to-rocket-system-is-the-falcon-9-each-vehicle-stands-229-feet-tall-and-can-loft-a-school-bussize-payload-into-orbit-it-costs-a-customer-about-62-million-to-launch-1

Quote:
Musk's goal is to drastically lower the cost of access to space with reusable, orbital-class rockets, thereby making it as cheap as possible to launch people to Mars. So far, developing this capability has cost SpaceX about $1 billion.

This raises a major question: How quickly could the company pay off its super-size investment?


I'm not sure about the $1billion number but its an interesting look at the possible profits to be made

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