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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:55 am 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
Anyway, the obvious answer is that we import to export. Presumably the Cheese IP is held in Ireland. Dutch sandwich, or would that require Edam?


That sounds made up :-GC

Could it be that we export loads of cheap easy singles and generic "cheddar" and import smaller amounts of more expensive Stilton and yummy mature cheddars? (note to self: must hit Sheridans to stock up for Christmas)


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Some cheese is produced in bulk in Ireland and packaged for consumers abroad. I don't know if this is for reasons of tax planning or simply more efficient to process


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
They're achieving clarity on Brexit through the prism of a block of cheddar.

Be more patriotic about cheese, says Michael Gove, - BBC News

Quote:
Britain currently imports "lots of cheddar" from Ireland, the Commons environment committee was told, but if it leaves the EU without a trade deal and goes to World Trade Organization (WTO) rules it will face tariffs on that product of 40%.

That meant prices in British shops would go up by 40%, Labour's Angela Smith claimed.

Mr Gove said it would be important to have these WTO tariffs if Britain left without a deal to prevent British farmers being undercut by cheap food imports - but he insisted the price of cheddar would not rise by 40%.

Agriculture minister George Eustice told the environment committee: "What would probably happen, if everybody put up such a tariff wall, is that we would consume more of the cheese we produce, rather than send it to Ireland, and Ireland would be selling us less cheese."

The UK currently exports £320m of cheddar to Ireland every year and imports £389m of cheddar, he told the committee (Ireland accounts for about 80% of all cheddar imports, according to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board).


Image

As an aside, it's interesting that with the UK we import as much cheese as we export. I assumed the balance of trade was much more in our favour and the figures suggest that per capita we consume 10 times as much UK cheese as they consume Irish cheese? Or is this part of some export credit taxation trick that distorts the figures?

If we import 300 million and export 300 million cheddar to the uk its obvious that we have a high consumption per head as there are fewer 'heads' ere.
Most of the import is probably shite from tesco and NI imports
Milk from NI is used to produce cheese here so its its probably UK cheese anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:33 pm 
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werpen wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
They're achieving clarity on Brexit through the prism of a block of cheddar.

Be more patriotic about cheese, says Michael Gove, - BBC News

Quote:
Britain currently imports "lots of cheddar" from Ireland, the Commons environment committee was told, but if it leaves the EU without a trade deal and goes to World Trade Organization (WTO) rules it will face tariffs on that product of 40%.

That meant prices in British shops would go up by 40%, Labour's Angela Smith claimed.

Mr Gove said it would be important to have these WTO tariffs if Britain left without a deal to prevent British farmers being undercut by cheap food imports - but he insisted the price of cheddar would not rise by 40%.

Agriculture minister George Eustice told the environment committee: "What would probably happen, if everybody put up such a tariff wall, is that we would consume more of the cheese we produce, rather than send it to Ireland, and Ireland would be selling us less cheese."

The UK currently exports £320m of cheddar to Ireland every year and imports £389m of cheddar, he told the committee (Ireland accounts for about 80% of all cheddar imports, according to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board).


Image

As an aside, it's interesting that with the UK we import as much cheese as we export. I assumed the balance of trade was much more in our favour and the figures suggest that per capita we consume 10 times as much UK cheese as they consume Irish cheese? Or is this part of some export credit taxation trick that distorts the figures?

If we import 300 million and export 300 million cheddar to the uk its obvious that we have a high consumption per head as there are fewer 'heads' ere.
Most of the import is probably shite from tesco and NI imports
Milk from NI is used to produce cheese here so its its probably UK cheese anyway.

So much wishful thinking, though - "Mr Gove ... insisted the price of cheddar would not rise by 40%." Why not? If supply is short then suppliers will keep prices low? I don't imagine all that is exported to us is cheddar, though there's probably a good bit exported to other places too. I expect the price of UK cheddar will rise. Substitution theory says that cheese is cheese, but does anyone see a cheddar-eater having a brie, er, gouda, er, stilton sandwich for lunch?

edit: oh and "What would probably happen, if everybody put up such a tariff wall," Probably? Do you have evidence for this belief Mr. Eustice?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Cheese Eating Remoaner Monkeys - thank God that Dark Triadic creep Gove has put you in your box!

Mark Steyn comes to mind

https://www.steynonline.com/6168/live-brie-or-die

Quote:
I've never subscribed to that whole "cheese-eating surrender-monkey" sneer promoted by my National Review colleague Jonah Goldberg. As a neocon warmonger, I yield to no one in my contempt for the French, but, that said, cheese-wise I feel they have the edge.

When I'm at the lunch counter in America and I order a cheeseburger and the waitress says, "American, Swiss or Cheddar?" I can't tell the difference. They all taste of nothing. The only difference is that the slice of alleged Swiss is full of holes, so you're getting less nothing for your buck. Then again, the holes also taste of nothing, and they're less fattening. But, either way, cheese is not the battleground on which to demonstrate the superiority of the American way


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 Post subject: 'Iconic' blue British passport to return after Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:38 am 
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'Iconic' blue British passport to return after Brexit

Something for the Brexiteers to cheer about.
Quote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42443253
British passports will change from burgundy to blue after Britain leaves the EU, the Home Office has said.

Immigration Minister Brandon Lewis said he was delighted to return to the "iconic" blue and gold design which came into use almost 100 years ago.

The new passports will be made available to those renewing or applying for a passport from October 2019.

Burgundy passports have been used for almost 30 years after the UK joined the EU and adopted the style.

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage responded to the announcement by tweeting "Happy Brexmas!"

He added: "In the 2016 referendum, we wanted our passports back. Now we've got them back!"

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:07 pm 
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The new croatian EU passport is dark blue, so even as a totemic gesture the Brexit passport was pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:30 pm 
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catbear wrote:
The new croatian EU passport is dark blue, so even as a totemic gesture the Brexit passport was pointless.

It's just reverting to its pre-EU colours, Next it will be the number plates :x

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"Democracy is like sausage, you want it, but you don't want to know how it is made". [John Godfrey Saxe]
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:41 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
catbear wrote:
The new croatian EU passport is dark blue, so even as a totemic gesture the Brexit passport was pointless.

It's just reverting to its pre-EU colours, Next it will be the number plates :x

And more...
Image

It's hard not to feel that the UK is heading towards a Butlins parody whilst the babyboomers control the ballot box.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Some of those old codgers would even vote for the return of the old British road signs, the ones that were replaced by European style ones in the 1960s.

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Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
As an aside, it's interesting that with the UK we import as much cheese as we export. I assumed the balance of trade was much more in our favour and the figures suggest that per capita we consume 10 times as much UK cheese as they consume Irish cheese? Or is this part of some export credit taxation trick that distorts the figures?

By the power of Google...

Global cheese consumption (Kg per capita)
http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php? ... o&s4=tc-ft

...the answer is that we consume approximately as much per head as the Brits do, which is exactly what you'd expect given the cultural similarities. Although the numbers seem really jumpy YoR.

China is at 0.1kg per capita. Still, that's still 140 million tonnes of the stuff.

Anyway, the obvious answer is that we import to export. Presumably the Cheese IP is held in Ireland. Dutch sandwich, or would that require Edam?

I see what you did there :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:08 pm 
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catbear wrote:
Image



Interesting to see how much widespread support the smoking ban has.
Doesn't take long for people to get used to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:03 pm 
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More of the recent trend of opinion pieces where "British sources" "express dismay" to their Irish contacts which then get into the paper. Part of a wish to return to Fine Gael normal service re the UK (ie Cosgrave). I think it's to try to get the conversation going within the FG base that Leo and Coveney are going "too far" and "causing instability". But the problem is that the base love Leo and Simon.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/vara ... -1.3336810

Andy Pollak sees Varadkar and Coveney as 'wrapping themselves in the green flag.' You'd have to think that the Centre for Cross Border Studies didn't actually reach out to Nationalists in the North much eh ?

Quote:
However, maybe somebody should puncture the self-congratulatory mood a little by pointing out that there is a downside to this diplomatic coup. Relations between the Irish government and the DUP, which took long and agonising years to build in the early 2000s, have broken down.


Of course Andy neglects to mention was Arlene Foster who, very publicly and in a "megaphone way" who slapped down Enda Kennys idea of an all Ireland forum on Brexit.

Quote:
For his part Coveney dropped one particularly awful clanger. How did such a normally skilled and highly-intelligent politician make the huge unforced error of telling an Oireachtas committee last month that he would “like to see a united Ireland in my lifetime. If possible, within my political lifetime”?

If there was one thing guaranteed to terrify every unionist, it was for the Irish deputy prime minister to be announcing in the middle of highly-sensitive negotiations about the border, that he wanted to see Irish unity within 20-25 years


The "clanger" is that someone who specialises in "cross border studies" thinks that nationalism cannot be expressed. It's part of the Stephen Donnelly mindset that we must act with DUP wingnut perceptions at the forefront. I mean, is it permitted to express the hope that NI will still be in the union in 25 years ? Is that the only thing that's OK to him.


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irel ... 9?mode=amp
Quote:
Speaking to my former colleagues and UK government advisers last week, they acknowledged that tensions were high and some expressed frustrations about the megaphone diplomacy of the Taoiseach during negotiations. But now that the dust has settled, there is an acceptance that this was Ireland’s chance to throw its weight around and it played the part it had to. All sides got what they wanted in the end, and despite some hyperbolic reports from the English press, only the more nationalistic fringes of the Conservative Party feel any serious damage has been done to Anglo-Irish relations in the long term.


"Megaphone diplomacy" was frustrating because it is not part of the script that UK establishment expects.

Quote:
However, among those at the top, there is a clear expectation that, moving into the second phase of talks, Ireland’s tone will shift to see it become Britain’s best champion at the EU table in recognition of the interdependence of the two economies and the desire for frictionless trade


It's worrying that "those at the top" don't get it. Leo has weighed it up already - he's said he's on the side of the 27.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:56 pm 
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When the trade talks begin, how on earth are we going to maintain unity among the 27 states and their respective competing national interests?

Could we end up with a dog eat dog scenario as member countries will do anything to protect their trade policies?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:44 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
Quote:
However, among those at the top, there is a clear expectation that, moving into the second phase of talks, Ireland’s tone will shift to see it become Britain’s best champion at the EU table in recognition of the interdependence of the two economies and the desire for frictionless trade


It's worrying that "those at the top" don't get it. Leo has weighed it up already - he's said he's on the side of the 27.

The talk of the interdependence of the two economies and frictionless trade seems to be coming only from the British side? Or am I missing out on the calls in Ireland for it (other than maybe the farmers?). Is this a sign of confidence in Ireland? Or head-in-the-sand?

I don't see anything other than Ireland sticking with the 27 as the long-term benefits of the EU outweigh the declining UK. I'm not sure how it's possible to advocate for a country that has no idea what it wants other than have-cake-and-eat-it. Anyway, I think the 27 already know what they want, free trade in goods, but not services. Open borders, but the UK not in the EU fast lane, so free movement of people, but not automatic rights to reside/work. And I think the UK will have no choice but to accept it, as it'll be all that's on offer.

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