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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Posts: 147
Alternative headline:

Clonkeen College gifted €9m by Christian Brothers including €7.5m of land and €1.3m for sports and other developments.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.rte.ie/amp/876250/

While financial difficulties and the continued decline of the Catholic Church means the Christian Brothers no longer have the resources to continue to allow free usage of 7.5 acres of prime development land around the school, they believe this charitable donation will help safeguard the future of Clonkeen College in the absence of further state funding.


[I have very little positive to say about organised religion except to say I'm glad that they are subsidizing education here since our taxpayers don't seem to want to foot the bill. People should get real if they think that yesterday's non-binding agreements still hold when the facts on the ground change]


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 295
Skippy 3 wrote:
There is also the following.

The pitches are currently used exclusively by teenage boys for field sports, most of which they will not pursue when they have left school.

They are also vacant - but unavailable for local use presumably - for 95% of daylight hours.

Is this the socially optimal use of the land?


The major sports at Clonkeen are GAA and soccer and the school has supplied several Dublin county footballers and some soccer internationals, but that is beside the point.

The pitches are in use every school day to provide outdoor PE facilities as they cannot cater for numbers indoors. Physical exercise is an essential part of a healthy school curriculum. Then there is the incalculable value of team sports. Teenagers nowadays have major self-image problems caused by social media pressures and physical exercise and competitive and non-competitive team bonding help to build confidence as well as the obvious health benefits.

Many people continue to play casual 5 a side soccer long after they have left school. I know that I did. And in fact the plan was that there was going to be an all-weather facility built at Clonkeen with the assistance of DLR with public access which would have served the wider community at large including local clubs like Granada, Park Celtic, Cuala etc who are short on facilities. The CBs sat on approving this plan for the grounds, we now can see why.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1800
This is SCD low-rise suburbia developed in the 50s and 60s, not Victorian Rathmines or the Coombe.

Is the surrounding area short of open patches of grass for teenage boys to kick balls on?

A quick perusal of google maps suggests not.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Nationalised

Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8191
Location: London, innit
onioneater wrote:
slasher wrote:
dubrov wrote:
Seems to me like it is a sly move by the CB to intimate that if the State goes after them, they will have to sell public assets.
Locals scream foul, the state backs off and everyone is a winner right?

Eh, last week people were screaming for orders to sell their land backs to pay compensation? Do they have other assets?



I assume that the CBs have lots of empty monasteries/office buildings that they could sell before selling school pitches. And cut down on their junkets to Rome etc.

In fact Clonkeen College would have no objection to losing a portion of their lands, if all CB-owned schools shared the load. But not to stand for more than 70% of the grounds of one school to be taken. Actually I now think that the school building footprint is about 2 acres, leaving the school only 1.5ac to cover all outdoor areas including paths and yards. There will be no room for any reasonably sized outdoor pitch. This in a school planned to cater for 600 teenage boys on their premises.

Junkets to Rome? That'll do it. Sorry for questioning


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Private Tenant

Joined: Mar 11, 2010
Posts: 31
kennypowers wrote:
Alternative headline:

Clonkeen College gifted €9m by Christian Brothers including €7.5m of land and €1.3m for sports and other developments.


Is the "gift" offset against the instalment to the state though?
Kind of like having the option of donating your taxes to your favourite charity instead of the state.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1800
There are lots of open spaces around for all-weather facilities to be built on.

The concept of large tracts of land for exclusive use of schools - but left largely unused compared to a public park- is highly inefficient in my view.

I also don't see much pedagogical merit in field sports, but I appreciate views differ on this topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Homeless

Joined: May 18, 2016
Posts: 14
Skippy 3 wrote:
There is also the following.

The pitches are currently used exclusively by teenage boys for field sports, most of which they will not pursue when they have left school.

They are also vacant - but unavailable for local use presumably - for 95% of daylight hours.

Is this the socially optimal use of the land?


Not so, the pitches are used by the All-Ireland club champions

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parents-furious-at-christian-brothers-plan-to-sell-off-75-acres-at-dublin-school-35730954.html


Quote:
Representatives of the Cuala GAA club in Dalkey will also attend the meeting as the club uses the lands for training.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 295
kennypowers wrote:
Alternative headline:

Clonkeen College gifted €9m by Christian Brothers including €7.5m of land and €1.3m for sports and other developments.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.rte.ie/amp/876250/

While financial difficulties and the continued decline of the Catholic Church means the Christian Brothers no longer have the resources to continue to allow free usage of 7.5 acres of prime development land around the school, they believe this charitable donation will help safeguard the future of Clonkeen College in the absence of further state funding.


[I have very little positive to say about organised religion except to say I'm glad that they are subsidizing education here since our taxpayers don't seem to want to foot the bill. People should get real if they think that yesterday's non-binding agreements still hold when the facts on the ground change]


You don't know what you are talking about. That "charitable donation" of 3.5 acres includes the 2 or more that are under the footprint of the school buildings. Are you saying that we should be grateful that the CBs didn't tear down the school as well? Also I understand that the 3.5 acres on which the school is now supposed to stand and operate on will be given to the Edmund Rice Trust which is essentially another CB outfit, and not to the State/school board. So no "gift" here.

"Safeguard the future of the school" my arse. Taxpayers and parents are spending €10m on this school rebuilding , not the CBs, who are jeopardising the school with this move. Do you think that in future parents will want to send their kids to a school that has lost its school pitches, not matter how good the academic results or indoor facilities are? This is a massive blow to a school.

You also know don't you that this "prime development land" is mostly made up of the school's pitches with inadequate infrastructure like sewerage capacity in the area to support the planned massive development?

And I imagine you know that most national schools in the country are probably situated on land owned by the Catholic Church. Do you have kids at school and would you be happy for the Catholic Church to sell all the playgrounds around all national schools for house development? What a thoughtless line of argument, you must be CB or developer material.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Jun 28, 2010
Posts: 283
As a past pupil going back to the 80s I can say with authority and having enjoyed playing on these pitches that they are far in excess of what a school needs for its exclusive use- I don't know the exact details of the deal but when I was there there were three full size pitches- only two of which were ever in use simultaeneously- and swathes of unkempt land on the boundaries. Even as a teenager I thought this a selfish and profligate use of land in a highly desirable residential area, surely there is a middle ground where the school get to develop one full size floodlit astro and top spec indoor hall and also get the community gain/timetabled use of another astro to be developed in the numerous fields between MacIntosh and Monaloe? There is a workable solution for everyone to be made without the Maude Flanders shite doing the rounds in the media today.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1800
PyriteNation wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
There is also the following.

The pitches are currently used exclusively by teenage boys for field sports, most of which they will not pursue when they have left school.

They are also vacant - but unavailable for local use presumably - for 95% of daylight hours.

Is this the socially optimal use of the land?


Not so, the pitches are used by the All-Ireland club champions


Fair point.

But I ask again: is there any shortage of open grassland in the vicinity?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 295
Skippy 3 wrote:
There are lots of open spaces around for all-weather facilities to be built on.

The concept of large tracts of land for exclusive use of schools - but left largely unused compared to a public park- is highly inefficient in my view.

I also don't see much pedagogical merit in field sports, but I appreciate views differ on this topic.


"Large tracts of land" in the area, what good is that to the school? Should the school send out the kids to do PE in Meadow Vale or Cabinteely Park and let them come back when they see fit? Is that a real argument in this day and age of insurance and oversight concerns or are you simply trolling?

As previously pointed out the pitches were being used already by other clubs and there was a DLR plan to build a 4G pitch at the school for the use of local clubs and the public at large, that plan was effectively blocked by CB/ERST and is now gone by the wayside.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 295
tommyt wrote:
As a past pupil going back to the 80s I can say with authority and having enjoyed playing on these pitches that they are far in excess of what a school needs for its exclusive use- I don't know the exact details of the deal but when I was there there were three full size pitches- only two of which were ever in use simultaeneously- and swathes of unkempt land on the boundaries. Even as a teenager I thought this a selfish and profligate use of land in a highly desirable residential area, surely there is a middle ground where the school get to develop one full size floodlit astro and top spec indoor hall and also get the community gain/timetabled use of another astro to be developed in the numerous fields between MacIntosh and Monaloe? There is a workable solution for everyone to be made without the Maude Flanders shite doing the rounds in the media today.


*The school is planned to have in excess of 600 students and already has many more teams than in your day. If you look at the new building work the new back of the school and hardcourts have now encroached well out already on what used to be green space.

*There already was a plan for a 4G pitch, open to the public, supported by the school and effectively blocked by CB/ERST. And at least 1 full size grass pitch for teams is just essential in this day and age.

*The school management and parents are open to some of the land being developed (for instance the ERTS office building and its backyard) as part of a settlement involving all the CB schools, not to all the pitches of 1 school being sold off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by onioneater on Fri May 19, 2017 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Jun 28, 2010
Posts: 283
onioneater wrote:

"Large tracts of land" in the area, what good is that to the school? Should the school send out the kids to do PE in Meadow Vale?


Yes.

And it should be the norm for all schools that their sports facilities are in use 12 hours a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 295
tommyt wrote:
onioneater wrote:

"Large tracts of land" in the area, what good is that to the school? Should the school send out the kids to do PE in Meadow Vale?


Yes.

And it should be the norm for all schools that their sports facilities are in use 12 hours a day.


Sorry, but you need to educate yourself about 21st century regulations around duty of care to pupils and insurance concerns.

And why stop at 12 hours per day, why not 24? Wtf...


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 Post subject: Re: Christian Brothers in disgraceful sale of school pitches
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1800
onioneater wrote:
"Large tracts of land" in the area, what good is that to the school? Should the school send out the kids to do PE in Meadow Vale or Cabinteely Park and let them come back when they see fit?


In many parts of the world schools in urban areas have to share facilities with other schools or other uses.

This is just NIMBYISM dressed up as concern for children. I confidently predict that teenage boys will still be kicking balls around in the environs of the school in ten years' time.


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