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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:34 pm 
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The bourgeoisie of SCD can rest easy - the Shinners are looking out for them

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/46101
Quote:
Labour's attempt to increase property tax in Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown defeated

Sinn Féin councillor for Sandyford Glencullen Chris Curran, has expressed his delight that the council defeated the Labour Party's attempt to increase property tax in Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Posts: 2561
I thought one of the main drums SF bang was wealth taxes?

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Borrowers seeking mortgages have had to resort to saving deposits, forcing many to sit by and watch house prices tumble without being able to do anything about it. Sunday Independent - June 1 2008

I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Catherine Murphy is persuasive. She gets in a dig at Mayo which I approve of :P

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/huge ... 4?mode=amp


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 822
I paid the LPT in the post office over a week ago and it’s still showing in the Revenue online system as unpaid. Would have thought it would show as paid by now?


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:32 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
Catherine Murphy is persuasive. She gets in a dig at Mayo which I approve of :P

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/huge ... 4?mode=amp


Murphy claims that LPT was introduced to provide better public services at a local level.

This was never true, it was explicitly introduced so that taxes on employment wouldn't have to rise further.

Otherwise, the article is really about the opaque mechanism for setting exchequer grants to local authorities. It is extremely difficult to do this fairly and consistently. But this is the case in every country on the planet.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:11 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Catherine Murphy is persuasive. She gets in a dig at Mayo which I approve of :P

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/huge ... 4?mode=amp


Murphy claims that LPT was introduced to provide better public services at a local level.

This was never true, it was explicitly introduced so that taxes on employment wouldn't have to rise further.

No, you're wrong. The LPT evolved from the Household Charge which was introduced to contribute towards local services.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011 ... /html#sec1


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:18 am 
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Odd that a political piece is subscriber only. Not even on SocDem website. Great communication there Catherine


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:36 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5507
Location: SthDub
Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Catherine Murphy is persuasive. She gets in a dig at Mayo which I approve of :P

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/huge ... 4?mode=amp


Murphy claims that LPT was introduced to provide better public services at a local level.

This was never true, it was explicitly introduced so that taxes on employment wouldn't have to rise further.

No, you're wrong. The LPT evolved from the Household Charge which was introduced to contribute towards local services.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011 ... /html#sec1

Which was introduced to plug a hole in the Govt's budget during the crash. At short notice.
Just another tax with a different name


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Oct 11, 2012
Posts: 665
FreeFallin wrote:
Which was introduced to plug a hole in the Govt's budget during the crash. At short notice.
Just another tax with a different name


But property tax is completely different from income tax. It has been fatally undermined by the failure to allow it keep pace with property price inflation. But when used properly, it is a progressive and useful tax.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:20 pm 
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mortgageboy wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Which was introduced to plug a hole in the Govt's budget during the crash. At short notice.
Just another tax with a different name


But property tax is completely different from income tax. It has been fatally undermined by the failure to allow it keep pace with property price inflation. But when used properly, it is a progressive and useful tax.

Of course it's different. But as mentioned previously, they only brought in property taxes because they couldn't take any more on income tax after having introduced the likes of USC.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 am 
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Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 1888
Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Catherine Murphy is persuasive. She gets in a dig at Mayo which I approve of :P

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/huge ... 4?mode=amp


Murphy claims that LPT was introduced to provide better public services at a local level.

This was never true, it was explicitly introduced so that taxes on employment wouldn't have to rise further.

No, you're wrong. The LPT evolved from the Household Charge which was introduced to contribute towards local services.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011 ... /html#sec1


No you’re wrong. There was never a rationale for ‘better’ public services.

Noonan announced to the Dàil that he preferred a property tax to another tax on employment. It was also made quite clear at the time that LPT proceeds would reduce Exchequer grants to local authorities one for one. Please browse the debates in December 2012 if in doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:50 am 
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Posts: 11450
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
No, you're wrong.

No you’re wrong.
Actually you're right in so much that Fine Gael was trying to wind back the progressive taxation system and transfer general taxation on to the 'consumer' of local services, but the Household Charge and LPT were intended to support local services. Whether the intention of restructuring the taxation system was to actually create 'better' local services or to wind them down by starving them of funds is a very valid debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:19 am 
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Joined: May 2, 2008
Posts: 1603
Location: Ireland
Where I live a private developer had to reallign a road recently for a private development. 2 roundabouts, and a water drain. Took about 6 weeks. The council meanwhile are doing a similar job on the other side of town and have been at it for 2 years and no sign of finishing yet.

Pumping money into councils seems to be just a complete waste. They will find ways of spending it with the least benefit to the end user.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:32 am 
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Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 1862
Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
No, you're wrong.

No you’re wrong.
Actually you're right in so much that Fine Gael was trying to wind back the progressive taxation system and transfer general taxation on to the 'consumer' of local services, but the Household Charge and LPT were intended to support local services. Whether the intention of restructuring the taxation system was to actually create 'better' local services or to wind them down by starving them of funds is a very valid debate.

LPT is a wealth tax - irish socialist have forgotten that the most vunerable in society do not own property and are not subject to this tax. LPT is also a highly progressive tax - the more valuable your asset, the greater the liability.

Yes some people have a small income relative to their wealth (aka "the elderly") but this should not exempt them.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus, Mary and Josepha ! LPT on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 1655
Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
No, you're wrong.

No you’re wrong.
Actually you're right in so much that Fine Gael was trying to wind back the progressive taxation system and transfer general taxation on to the 'consumer' of local services, but the Household Charge and LPT were intended to support local services. Whether the intention of restructuring the taxation system was to actually create 'better' local services or to wind them down by starving them of funds is a very valid debate.


Seriously, it was part of the bailout conditions signed up to by FF and implement further by FG
Quick fix on taxation at time designed to close the deficit and move away from boom bust Stamp duty

Surprised your buying government spin these days

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An increase in the number of paupers does not broaden the market. M. Kalecki


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