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 Post subject: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:09 am 
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Posts: 101
Some street widening is going ahead in Dublin it appears. Which I find unbelievable as I thought the nature of Dublin planning was to keep the place going as a case study in how not to maximise commute distances for people trying to get around it.

Quote:
HOMEOWNERS forced to sacrifice part of their gardens for Dublin’s new rapid bus network are in line for generous compensation payments running into tens of thousands of euro.

Government sources suggest that compensation of up to €25,000 per square metre will be paid for land taken from as many as 1,300 property owners.
...
Because many city streets are narrow, transport planners intend to take “slices” of gardens to allow roads to be widened.


https://www.independent.ie/news/environ ... 04982.html

There's a video in the article with a lady complaining about possibly having to give up part of her front garden. No body likes to give up things, especially when its the fruits of a century of growth to your city which you have benefited from hugely in regard to jobs, local infrastructure and the fact your crappy house is now worth the same as a mansion 50 km west.

How long before this collapses due to costs and the bottom up tyranny of objections?


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:05 pm 
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This is the first I've heard of this Bus Connects project. Sounds like something that may work and not cost an arm and a leg.

Bus Connects Website wrote:
What is Bus Connects?

BusConnects aims to overhaul the current bus system in the Dublin region by:

-building a network of “next generation” bus corridors on the busiest bus routes to make bus journeys faster, predictable and reliable;
-introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system, on three of the busiest corridors;
-completely redesigning the network of bus routes to provide a more efficient network, connecting more places and carrying more passengers;
-developing a state-of-the-art ticketing system using credit and debit cards or mobile phones to link with payment accounts and making payment much more convenient;
-implementing a cashless payment system to vastly speed up passenger boarding times;
-revamping the fare system to provide a simpler fare structure, allowing seamless movement between different transport services without financial penalty;
-implementing a new bus livery providing a modern look and feel to the new bus system;
-rolling out new bus stops with better signage and information and increasing the provision of additional bus shelters; and
-transitioning - starting now - to a new bus fleet using low-emission vehicle technologies.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8620
Location: London, innit
the Bus Rapid Transit project is in the works for at least 2/3 years


usual property hysterics from the media
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.3528281

Quote:
Value of homes hit by bus corridor plan ‘could drop by up to 25%’
Property experts suggest major public transport initiative a case of ‘short-term pain for long-term gain’

Houses affected by the National Transport Authority’s plan to create 16 high-speed bus routes in Dublin could fall in value by a quarter, one property expert has suggested.

More than 1,000 homes in Dublin will lose gardens and parking places under plans to create 230km of expanded bus lanes and 200km of cycle lanes within a decade.

Property experts warned that houses losing part of their gardens, or parking would suffer significant falls in value, but unaffected houses nearby would jump in price because of being close to high-speed public transport.

Speaking openly, Keith Lowe, chief executive of DNG said a lot of home-owners will be “very nervous” about the NTA’s move that could cut between 20 and 25 per cent from the value of their homes.

Houses in places such as Belmayne in north Dublin could rise by up to 10 per cent if fast bus routes got people into the city centre in 20 minutes compared to 40 minutes today.

‘Red hot’
The Phibsborough area in Dublin’s north inner city has become a “red hot” property district and popular with homebuyers as a result of the new Luas line, he noted.



However, houses such as those on Kimmage Road Lower, which might sell for about €500,000, could drop by about €100,000 if there was no car-parking area and a bus was running straight past the house.

Angela Keegan, managing director of MyHome.ie, which is owned by The Irish Times, urged the NTA to authority to begin talks with affected homeowners as quickly as possible.

Some houses that could be be impacted, such as those on Terenure Road East, have big gardens and are “hugely sought after”. She said the impact of the changes would also be seen coming into Rathmines.

Housebuyers now carefully research amenities, schools and transport when looking for a home, she said: “I would have to welcome the initiative to get people to work faster and spending less time commuting,” she added.

The chief executive of the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers, Pat Davitt, said the value of the houses losing gardens would “drop considerably”, but he welcomed moves to cut gridlock.

Positive impact
Áine Myler, director general of the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland, also noted the positive impact new transport infrastructure such as the Luas had had on particular areas.

She said Dublin was clearly expanding and the population was growing and plans to upgrade the transport network was a necessity to deal with the sheer volume of people who needed to travel in and out of the city.

Ireland also needed to reach global and European sustainability targets and the plan would help deliver those.

But Ms Myler said open and transparent consultation was needed, particularly with the residents who would be impacted. The society recently made a submission to the Law Reform Commission on improvements to the compulsory purchase legislation. Ms Myler said she believed the use of compulsory purchase would probably increase and would come to be seen as a feature of upgrading infrastructure.

It was a case of “short-term pain for long-term gain”, she said.

https://www.independent.ie/news/environ ... 04982.html

Quote:
€25k for a square metre of garden: Homeowners to receive compensation in new bus network plan
Homeowners could receive €25k for a square metre of garden
Homeowners may be forced to sacrifice part of their gardens for Dublin’s new rapid bus network
However, they are in line for generous compensation payments running into tens of thousands of euro
Landscapers will also be hired to develop the gardens left behind
State footing the bill for new driveways, paving, trees and shrubbery


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Posts: 2883
Location: Oighearland
the recent road improvements have resulted in longer journey times. any hope why this would be different?

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5834
Location: SthDub
25k per sqm is absolute insanity


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Thing Fish wrote:
the recent road improvements have resulted in longer journey times. any hope why this would be different?

Which road improvements have resulted in longer journey times?
The expansion of bus lanes along the quays resulted in longer car journey times? That's a foreseen outcome, surely, with the aim being to shorten journey times for those commuters who chose to travel by bus rather by private car.
Or you mean the work on the Luas Cross City resulted in longer bus journey times? Hopefully at least some lessons will have been learned about the need for joined up thinking there.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 12, 2014
Posts: 610
Location: Dublin
FreeFallin wrote:
25k per sqm is absolute insanity

It really is.
But, this is Ireland.

In reality, most of these houses are probably looking at 3-4 foot depth being taken off a 30 foot small front garden that is functionally not used for anything other than parking. There is still likely to be space for a car to be parked.

This initiative, if successful, is likely to increase the value of houses in those areas - not decrease them.
With the advent of fully electric buses not too far away, the buses will be quite quiet.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3425
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Not just Dublin, but other cities will get the same treatment
I can see a ginoromus amount of €€€ going from the State to rentiers


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Nov 1, 2012
Posts: 165
slasher wrote:
the Bus Rapid Transit project is in the works for at least 2/3 years

usual property hysterics from the media
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.3528281

Quote:
Value of homes hit by bus corridor plan ‘could drop by up to 25%’
Property experts suggest major public transport initiative a case of ‘short-term pain for long-term gain’

==snip==

However, houses such as those on Kimmage Road Lower, which might sell for about €500,000, could drop by about €100,000 if there was no car-parking area and a bus was running straight past the house.

==snip==


I had to laugh when, exactly as I was reading the first IT article about this announcement at lunchtime yesterday, I received a daft.ie email alert for a price drop on this.

Coincidence?

Well, yes.


I can see that properties with little or no garden on the affected roads may be a little harder to shift at least until the exact plans detailing who's losing what emerge and possibly through construction too. But it seems likely that the lack of supply will continue through the projected timeline of this project so beggars will continue to forego choice.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:35 am 
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Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 1632
slasher wrote:
the Bus Rapid Transit project is in the works for at least 2/3 years

BRT is another project, unless it's been merged (bastardised) into this, and it's completely different.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:04 am 
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Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8620
Location: London, innit
DSE3Br wrote:
slasher wrote:
the Bus Rapid Transit project is in the works for at least 2/3 years

BRT is another project, unless it's been merged (bastardised) into this, and it's completely different.

It's part of it, see above
I think it's a subset of the 16 routes.

Quote:

What is Bus Connects?

BusConnects aims to overhaul the current bus system in the Dublin region by:

-building a network of “next generation” bus corridors on the busiest bus routes to make bus journeys faster, predictable and reliable;
-introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system, on three of the busiest corridors;



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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:12 am 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31629
Location: Tullamore
FTBer wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
25k per sqm is absolute insanity

It really is.
But, this is Ireland.

In reality, most of these houses are probably looking at 3-4 foot depth being taken off a 30 foot small front garden that is functionally not used for anything other than parking. There is still likely to be space for a car to be parked.

This initiative, if successful, is likely to increase the value of houses in those areas - not decrease them.
With the advent of fully electric buses not too far away, the buses will be quite quiet.

Absolutely. And the high price is for public opinion and required, IMO, for it to be fair. Same as the IPO for the roads in the country, you pay top dollar because people really don't want the aggravation, so some of it is for the land, the rest is for the regret.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:26 am 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 612
Aside from the proposed cashless system, greener buses and new routes.....is this just effectively just a proposal to widen key roads to accommodate wider bus lanes in each direction?


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:01 am 
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Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 1632
slasher wrote:
DSE3Br wrote:
slasher wrote:
the Bus Rapid Transit project is in the works for at least 2/3 years

BRT is another project, unless it's been merged (bastardised) into this, and it's completely different.

It's part of it, see above
I think it's a subset of the 16 routes.

Quote:

What is Bus Connects?

BusConnects aims to overhaul the current bus system in the Dublin region by:

-building a network of “next generation” bus corridors on the busiest bus routes to make bus journeys faster, predictable and reliable;
-introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system, on three of the busiest corridors;


Apologies, it looks like it has been morphed into this plan, I understood that most of the BRT features had been watered down significantly as the plan progressed (/deteriorated). It occurred to me when the announcement was made earlier this week that they had cut the routes in half at the city centre to make their announcement more impressive by doubling the number of routes. The proposed BRT routes were from UCD to Blanchardstown and Swords to Tallaght if I recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:39 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5834
Location: SthDub
Boston wrote:
Aside from the proposed cashless system, greener buses and new routes.....is this just effectively just a proposal to widen key roads to accommodate wider bus lanes in each direction?

And dedicated bike lanes.

As far as I'm concerned this will just create more road space and less greenery. More road space in Ireland = more cars.
we don't police the bus lanes we have currently and I have no doubt we won't police the new improved versions in the future. So there may be some improvements in time but a lot of that will be lost to the private cars who know they can disobey the rules of the road without any consequences.


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