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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:26 pm 
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satechi wrote:
Is it illegal to put down "no rent supplement" etc in adverts nowadays? still seeing these ads


No it is not. At least I'm not aware of any such law.

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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:47 pm 
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New government policy seem to be in agreement to increase rent supplement ceiling rates.
Woohoo for landlords as their dole increases. Boohoo if you are working and competing with rent supplement claimants for housing.

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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:05 pm 
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temene wrote:
New government policy seem to be in agreement to increase rent supplement ceiling rates.
Woohoo for landlords as their dole increases. Boohoo if you are working and competing with rent supplement claimants for housing.

I read that alright.
Rent supplement increases...
...landlords charge more to capture the increase (or to avoid renting to supplement cohort)...
...private rents go up in line...
...private renters struggle to pay increased rents...
...demand higher wages & public sector pay "restoration"...
...public outcry against "housing crisis"...
...social agencies ask for increase in supplement "to help the problem"...
...Government promises action and duly raises rent supplement.
...private renters get nothing, except higher rents and higher house prices based on increased yields.
Repeat every 2 years as needed.
Everyone loses - except landlords.
:sick:

This. Is. Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:59 pm 
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It is similar to when you put microphone next to speaker and you get your feedback.
Feedback can be useful, but this particular one can break your system. Same here with welfare.

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This is my best finding this year:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 7:15 am 
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There is an issue with RS in Dublin and other urban areas. Current DSP policy is to breach caps in selected circumstances. By all accounts this is working.

This would suggest an overall increase RS rates.

PS: I remember well many pinsters cheering the reductions (2 I think) when rents were falling.........


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:56 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
There is an issue with RS in Dublin and other urban areas. Current DSP policy is to breach caps in selected circumstances. By all accounts this is working.

This would suggest an overall increase RS rates.

PS: I remember well many pinsters cheering the reductions (2 I think) when rents were falling.........

I think this was because RS sets a basement price below which private rent has no incentive to go. Lowering RS influences the wider rental market (in times of supply) and so lowers a cost of living for many.

Only the SocDems seem to have focussed on Ireland's ridiculous cost of living - and why it needs to come down. IMO FF want the costs to go up - eventhough it harms everyone - because as they try to win back the ambitious teacher/ garda/ nurse cohort of votes for next time, they need to be able to point to the "scandalous" cost of living in the new "benchmarking" exercise that they've committed to foisting on the FG minority Govt.
That's going to work out great for everyone - if everyone was the Public Sector... it's going to cruxify the rest of the working population through an engorged tax liability to pay for it all over future years.

But who in FF cares? Eh?
"Because we're back, baby! WE'RE BACK (shortly)!!"
"3 pints of Guinness there Michael, before the bar closes. No cash? Just put it on one of the credit cards we'll worry about it tomorrow. Pick up a few help-to-build and help-to-buy policy drafts from Tom there when you're gettin' the Tayto. He wants us to put them through the Dail on Weds. G'lad!"
:-GC


Note: Might have got a touch carried away there - but sadly it's all linked I feel.


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:15 am 
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FTBer wrote:
I think this was because RS sets a basement price below which private rent has no incentive to go. Lowering RS influences the wider rental market (in times of supply) and so lowers a cost of living for many.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate.

In the case where there is more renter demand than rental stock, and assuming neither is elastic, there has to be a mechanism (like cost of rent!) for allocating the scare resource.

As the supply/demand picture worsens, RS claimants lose access to the market - their proportion goes down. This is bad if you believe in social stability, e.g. people not having to move area when their rents are pushed out of their reach. They might not be able to find accommodation within reach of employment (whether or not they're in employment currently), or available schools, so they might just exit the workforce and dedicate themselves full time to claiming welfare. That is unarguably bad.

In theory, moving RS up corrects for this. The problem is that all the arguments for helping RS claimants to compete must equally fuck over the non-RS claimants at the same time.

The only solution is to increase supply. When there is a choice between spending money on RS vs spending money on direct provision of housing, it makes no sense to increase RS across the board. Using increasing rents as a transmission channel for housing supply is FG's failed policy for the past few years (and calling it a policy is being generous).

Dan O'Brien made exactly this point yesterday on Claire Byrne's show, but was drowned out by politicians whingeing about something immediate being necessary because they're getting shit from constituents. Even Stephen Donnelly was moaning, and he's usually the least idiotic in the room.

There are already case-by-case exceptions being made. I don't see the argument for across-the-board rises.

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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
FTBer wrote:
I think this was because RS sets a basement price below which private rent has no incentive to go. Lowering RS influences the wider rental market (in times of supply) and so lowers a cost of living for many.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate.

In the case where there is more renter demand than rental stock, and assuming neither is elastic, there has to be a mechanism (like cost of rent!) for allocating the scare resource.

As the supply/demand picture worsens, RS claimants lose access to the market - their proportion goes down. This is bad if you believe in social stability, e.g. people not having to move area when their rents are pushed out of their reach. They might not be able to find accommodation within reach of employment (whether or not they're in employment currently), or available schools, so they might just exit the workforce and dedicate themselves full time to claiming welfare. That is unarguably bad.

In theory, moving RS up corrects for this. The problem is that all the arguments for helping RS claimants to compete must equally fuck over the non-RS claimants at the same time.

The only solution is to increase supply. When there is a choice between spending money on RS vs spending money on direct provision of housing, it makes no sense to increase RS across the board. Using increasing rents as a transmission channel for housing supply is FG's failed policy for the past few years (and calling it a policy is being generous).


Dan O'Brien made exactly this point yesterday on Claire Byrne's show, but was drowned out by politicians whingeing about something immediate being necessary because they're getting shit from constituents. Even Stephen Donnelly was moaning, and he's usually the least idiotic in the room.

There are already case-by-case exceptions being made. I don't see the argument for across-the-board rises.

I take your points. RS in a supply starved environment gives RS receivers the firepower - albeit very temporarily - to compete for the rental segment that is indifferent to renting out property to private tenants or RS. The problem always is that the market responds by upping the baseline rent - and negating this enhanced firepower. Screwing over private renters in the process as they will move or pay up.
The Govt doesn't really care about properly solving the RS problem - if it did it would build new stock while the temporary increase in RS bought time.
But, because this is Ireland, we just go around in circles.

I agree with you that the last Govt were happy to watch rents/ prices soar - and hope that this would goose the supply side into action. Lazy lazy stuff.
Why have a coherent policy, with intention to help your people with housing, when you can just sit back and "shur' it'll all work itself out!"
For many many reasons Irelands supply side is not elastic enough to respond... or to want to respond.


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Posts: 1297
..why should I care about Rent Supplement ?
Maybe some of these poor people could go to college or just try to get any job. Oh I forgot it is so facist to ask people to work.
...and the ones on RS are probably working, otherwise they would have FREE house by now.

I earn decent money according to revenue so they can steal 50% of every pay increase, yet I can't afford to buy in a decent estate.

Minimum wage for Dublin should be higher than in other places, welfare should be lower everywhere.

_________________
Why is it so windy here?

This is my best finding this year:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Even Stephen Donnelly was moaning, and he's usually the least idiotic in the room.

Stephen Donnelly dons and doffs his populist hat as the situation demands.


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:33 am 
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Barney Gumble wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Even Stephen Donnelly was moaning, and he's usually the least idiotic in the room.

Stephen Donnelly dons and doffs his populist hat as the situation demands.


Donnelly is a gormless, self serving #! $=

He is a populist. No more no less.


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:27 am 
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Simon Coveney just stated that the State will be spending €46m in 2016 for homeless families in hotel rooms in Dublin alone!
That's insane!


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:46 pm 
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How many are there now?

For this money they would build an estate.

_________________
Why is it so windy here?

This is my best finding this year:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:46 am 
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Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 4301
mightyz wrote:
How many are there now?

For this money they would build an estate.

Indo reported 769 in Feb and increasing about 10% YoY.

So that's about 60k per family per year, or 160 per night.

I'd happily rent my house for 60k per year. Ker-ching!

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"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
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 Post subject: Re: Rent supplement is in the crosshairs
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:05 am 
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Eschatologist wrote:
mightyz wrote:
How many are there now?

For this money they would build an estate.

Indo reported 769 in Feb and increasing about 10% YoY.

So that's about 60k per family per year, or 160 per night.

I'd happily rent my house for 60k per year. Ker-ching!


It is an abject failure of public policy.

You could buy 300 dwellings per annum west of the Shannon for this amount, house 1,000 people and actually make some return in the form of social rents received.

It is also a massive free gift to the hotel industry.

I really, really wonder what the thought processes are of the housekeeping staff are as they clean the rooms of the native homeless. 90% of these staff being immigrants have come to Ireland to work for a better standard of living than at home.


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