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 Post subject: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:48 pm 
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the world's just is not fair
time to throw a tantrum
but dont worry
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Staff at the former EBS building society are to strike tomorrow in protest at the refusal of the Department of Finance to sanction a long-standing Christmas bonus previously paid to all employees.

Some 300 Unite trade union members working in EBS voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action last week.

They will place official pickets on two branches, at the Square in Tallaght and William Street in Limerick, as well as at the company’s head office on Burlington Road in Dublin tomorrow from 8.30am.

The bonus, which amounts to one month’s pay, has been paid to all building society staff for the last 45 years and is part of their contract of employment.

The company is not paying it this year after the Department of Finance – which has to approve bonus payments made by all State-controlled banks – refused to allow it.

However, the payment is being made to senior management who exercised an option several years ago to change the structure of their pay package so that the “bonus” was incorporated into their regular pay terms.

No such option was offered to ordinary staff, Unite said.

“This is the first stage of what will be escalating action to right this wrong,” said Unite regional officer Colm Quinlan said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing34.html

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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:51 pm 
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From what I hearit is not a bonus per say but a Chrimbo savings club. Annual salary is divided by 13 instead of 12 with two months being paid in December.

Open to correction.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:06 pm 
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The Naked Chef wrote:
From what I hearit is not a bonus per say but a Chrimbo savings club. Annual salary is divided by 13 instead of 12 with two months being paid in December.

Open to correction.


Thats my understanding of it too. Same payment system operated in ptsb when I worked there.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:38 pm 
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The Naked Chef wrote:
From what I hearit is not a bonus per say but a Chrimbo savings club. Annual salary is divided by 13 instead of 12 with two months being paid in December.

If true they'd be seeking redress in the courts. The fact that they're striking strongly suggests they have no legal entitlement to the payment.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:07 pm 
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The Naked Chef wrote:
From what I hearit is not a bonus per say but a Chrimbo savings club. Annual salary is divided by 13 instead of 12 with two months being paid in December.

Open to correction.

From what i hear its not in their contract they signed with the company when they joined.
so its not a case of their contracted salary now being divided by 12 instead of 13,
otherwise they would have received monthly increases over the previous few months to compensate.
They are continuing to receive their salary as per their contract.

Its supposed to be an assumption that people made because it was always given previously.
Hence quite rightly they are not entitled to it now - people are lucky to have a job.
As for management getting it, that is despicable :sick:
but apparently it is in their contract, so what can you do?

Of course, what any HR department should do now,
is look at the discrepancy in the now widening labour costs between management and basic workers,
and bear that in mind when it comes to make savings through mandatory redundancies.
I know who should be first on the list when employees need to go! 8DD

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Former CEO of Bank of Ireland Mike Soden has said many of the people who took out buy-to-let mortgages used the money to fund lavish lifestyles. Who would have made the money, had the market not collapsed? The individual would have.
(http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/banks-to-use-rent-receivers-to-collect-buy-to-let-mortgages-561140.html)


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:19 am 
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Ireland_is_different wrote:
The Naked Chef wrote:
From what I hearit is not a bonus per say but a Chrimbo savings club. Annual salary is divided by 13 instead of 12 with two months being paid in December.

Open to correction.

From what i hear its not in their contract they signed with the company when they joined.
so its not a case of their contracted salary now being divided by 12 instead of 13,
otherwise they would have received monthly increases over the previous few months to compensate.
They are continuing to receive their salary as per their contract.

Its supposed to be an assumption that people made because it was always given previously.
Hence quite rightly they are not entitled to it now - people are lucky to have a job.
As for management getting it, that is despicable :sick:
but apparently it is in their contract, so what can you do?

Of course, what any HR department should do now,
is look at the discrepancy in the now widening labour costs between management and basic workers,
and bear that in mind when it comes to make savings through mandatory redundancies.
I know who should be first on the list when employees need to go! 8DD


No. HR works directly for management and is there to enable an inderect system of application of certain unpalatable or (in the view of the worker) undesireable decisions to be made legally, behind closed doors and officially. More completely HR doesn't work for the workers, HR works for management.

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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:16 am 
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Whether it was in their contract of employment or not would seem to me to be irrelevant in this case. A 45-year tradition carries some weight. When I was in the Civil Service, I don't remember the shopping ("privilege") days being in my contract nor was the half hour to cash a non-existant cheque. As you know the half hour thing was in existance for years after CS workers were being paid by Direct Debit while the "privlage" days were converted into annual leave!

The EBS workers will get their "bonus" but it will be called something else and converted into part of their annual salary. Increments anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:53 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
Whether it was in their contract of employment or not would seem to me to be irrelevant in this case. A 45-year tradition carries some weight.

Irrelevant - like hell it is. I hope this goes to the Labour Court and they laugh at the union. If its not in their contract, they shouldn't get it - end of story. EBS are not some charity - they are there for their members - or at least were there for their members, now they are there to enrich their AIB shareholders - that is - the taxpayer!

As for tradition, I assume you're just taking the piss now.
For the love of god, house prices have also traditionally gone up every year :x see the problem with assuming traditions continue indefinitely....ask a roof thatcher :mrgreen: .
These people should be given an interest-free loan if they had taken it into account in their budgeting, and pay whatever benefit-in-kind is due on a preferential loan, and let that be it.

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Former CEO of Bank of Ireland Mike Soden has said many of the people who took out buy-to-let mortgages used the money to fund lavish lifestyles. Who would have made the money, had the market not collapsed? The individual would have.
(http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/banks-to-use-rent-receivers-to-collect-buy-to-let-mortgages-561140.html)


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Ireland_is_different wrote:
As for tradition, I assume you're just taking the piss now.

Can you imagine the precedent? A company paying a bonus a few years in a row would be running a risk of establishing a "tradition" the employees could claim a legal right to!


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:58 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
Whether it was in their contract of employment or not would seem to me to be irrelevant in this case. A 45-year tradition carries some weight.


Agreed. It sounds pretty clearly salary- It is a fixed amount, given irrespective of performance, many many years tradition.

Open and shut case for the Labour Court.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:59 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
When I was in the Civil Service .....

Your argument was lost right there.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Quote:
Open and shut case for the Labour Court.


Perhaps you’re thinking the labour court is a court, with an intelligent, independent minded judge like Peter Kelly?

Sadly no, the labour court is almost a branch of the trade unions – with chairman Kevin Duffy - ex BATU/ICTU/Worker Party, Kieran Mulvey CEO – ex Gen-Sec Asti /Workers party.

They’ve a tendency to pander to rather than laugh at ludicrous claims. An employer brought to the labour court has already lost, it’s just a question of how much.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Ireland_is_different wrote:
EBS are not some charity - they are there for their members - or at least were supposed to be there for their members
Fixed that for you!

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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Sep 29, 2010
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sorehead wrote:
Quote:
Open and shut case for the Labour Court.


Perhaps you’re thinking the labour court is a court, with an intelligent, independent minded judge like Peter Kelly?

Sadly no, the labour court is almost a branch of the trade unions – with chairman Kevin Duffy - ex BATU/ICTU/Worker Party, Kieran Mulvey CEO – ex Gen-Sec Asti /Workers party.

They’ve a tendency to pander to rather than laugh at ludicrous claims. An employer brought to the labour court has already lost, it’s just a question of how much.



I think that's why he said it was an open and shut case.


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 Post subject: Re: EBS staff to strike over bonus
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Quote:
Staff at the former EBS building society are to strike tomorrow in protest at the refusal of the Department of Finance to sanction a long-standing Christmas bonus previously paid to all employees.

These people work for a company that is completely bankrupt. If we had a functioning market economy they would all have lost their jobs and pensions. But instead the government intervened and bought EBS and they are now paid by the taxpayer. Effectively, they are public servants. However, unlike (many) other public servants, they don't actually provide a service. We have too many banks in Ireland, and pretty much all of them are loss making. So effectively, we're paying these people to lose money for the taxpayer.

I'm not blaming the EBS employees for this. No doubt some of them are responsible for the reckless loss-making lending that bankrupted EBS. But most of them are just unlucky people very much like many Waterford Crystal employees. They just happened to work for a firm that made big losses. However, unlike Waterford Crystal, the taxpayer has stepped in to rescue the EBS employees and their pensions.

Given that they are being paid by the taxpayer to work in a bank that doesn't do much lending and instead mostly makes losses, it doesn't seem unreasonable for the taxpayer to take a look at their contract and only pay up what is actually contractually due to them. If they worked in a part of the economy where the rules of economics work, they would have lost everything.

BG.


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