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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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A bit like that peat power station in Rhode I think it was where the esb had stopped producing power but the staff stayed on drinking tea waiting for a sweetheart deal.
Power to the workers or as Brendan Ogle might say "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE"

Why didn't Alan Kelly bring this to the public's attention back when he was Minister and spotted it first? Didn't want to rock the boat on another gravy train in his constituency...like the extra ghost trains and buses he laid on.


Last edited by FreeFallin on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:08 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
A bit like that peat power station in Rhodes I think it was where the esb had stopped producing power but the staff stayed on drinking tea waiting for a sweetheart deal.
Power to the workers or as Brendan Ogle might say "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE"

Rhode not Rhodes.

Yes, Minster had this storyline about an empty hospital not treating patients 30 to 35 years ago with militant staff to boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:43 pm 
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What does it cost to recruit someone to head Fáilte Ireland?
What a waste of money.
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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:44 pm 
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I can't link it - but a story in yesterday's Sunday Times reported that "Bereavement Leave" has been quite dramatically extended for Civil Servants following "negotiations" with the unions.

Death of Spouse or partner: increased from five to 20 days. (fourfold increase)

Death of close family member including parents, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren: increased from three to five days. (This leave also applies to in-laws and "immediate relatives" of cohabiting partners.)

Death of uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews: one day off which can be increased to up to five days in "exceptional" circumstances.

A quick, off-the top-of-my-head calculation has revealed that, had I been a Civil Servant under these rules, I would have had at least two months fully-paid leave over the last ten years in order to "grieve."


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Nov 30, 2011
Posts: 265
HiFi wrote:
I can't link it - but a story in yesterday's Sunday Times reported that "Bereavement Leave" has been quite dramatically extended for Civil Servants following "negotiations" with the unions.

Death of Spouse or partner: increased from five to 20 days. (fourfold increase)

Death of close family member including parents, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren: increased from three to five days. (This leave also applies to in-laws and "immediate relatives" of cohabiting partners.)

Death of uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews: one day off which can be increased to up to five days in "exceptional" circumstances.

A quick, off-the top-of-my-head calculation has revealed that, had I been a Civil Servant under these rules, I would have had at least two months fully-paid leave over the last ten years in order to "grieve."



If this report is accurate then the extended bereavement leave is way way out of line with the norm for bereavement leave in the private sector even in top quartile companies.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Belview wrote:
HiFi wrote:
I can't link it - but a story in yesterday's Sunday Times reported that "Bereavement Leave" has been quite dramatically extended for Civil Servants following "negotiations" with the unions.

Death of Spouse or partner: increased from five to 20 days. (fourfold increase)

Death of close family member including parents, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren: increased from three to five days. (This leave also applies to in-laws and "immediate relatives" of cohabiting partners.)

Death of uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews: one day off which can be increased to up to five days in "exceptional" circumstances.

A quick, off-the top-of-my-head calculation has revealed that, had I been a Civil Servant under these rules, I would have had at least two months fully-paid leave over the last ten years in order to "grieve."



If this report is accurate then the extended bereavement leave is way way out of line with the norm for bereavement leave in the private sector even in top quartile companies.


It's accurate alright - full details here:
http://www.impact.ie/civil-service-bere ... increased/


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:06 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
I can't link it - but a story in yesterday's Sunday Times reported that "Bereavement Leave" has been quite dramatically extended for Civil Servants following "negotiations" with the unions.

Death of Spouse or partner: increased from five to 20 days. (fourfold increase)

Death of close family member including parents, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren: increased from three to five days. (This leave also applies to in-laws and "immediate relatives" of cohabiting partners.)

Death of uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews: one day off which can be increased to up to five days in "exceptional" circumstances.

A quick, off-the top-of-my-head calculation has revealed that, had I been a Civil Servant under these rules, I would have had at least two months fully-paid leave over the last ten years in order to "grieve."

I was looking this stuff up a couple of weeks ago (so "old rules"), it's normally pretty public information.
Here's the 2009 circular I referred to: http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/fi ... 009/22.pdf

Actually, added 2017 to the search terms and found this:
http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2017/01.pdf
haven't digested it but do see "twenty" working days there for first category... I'll let others read further

(edit: HiFi, hadn't seen your post as I hit send. Still, the links above are effectively the internal circulars sent to managers/staff within the Civil Service to implement these changes, so probably useful.)


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:06 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
Death of uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews: one day off which can be increased to up to five days in "exceptional" circumstances.


Ah, the old exceptional circumstances. Bets on that nearly every event will be exceptional! Just like nearly every civil servant whose performance was exceptional when doing performance reviews a few years back.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:30 pm 
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The ----------- is agreed in principle , subject to discussion at local level .

The ----------- will only be granted in exceptional circumstances

Public Service Unions have been selling the above nonsense to gullible managers for years. Of course what can you expect when the managers are in a branch of the same union as the the staff.

Monty Python eat your heart out


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:46 pm 
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20 days leave (some taken immediately and maybe some taken over 6 months) to deal with the emotional and practical impact of the loss of a spouse seems quite humane. Having seen this at close quarters in recent times I would say that having some days to use when kids don't want to face school or need to be collected early etc. would be very important. As would time to chase probate etc. A week's leave hardly seems adequate in my opinion, it barely allows for the burial and the immediate logistical issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:03 pm 
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AWAAF wrote:
20 days leave (some taken immediately and maybe some taken over 6 months) to deal with the emotional and practical impact of the loss of a spouse seems quite humane. Having seen this at close quarters in recent times I would say that having some days to use when kids don't want to face school or need to be collected early etc. would be very important. As would time to chase probate etc. A week's leave hardly seems adequate in my opinion, it barely allows for the burial and the immediate logistical issues.



Of course the early loss of a spouse is a huge event in any life , but a weeks special leave is a very humane response by any employer. If the individual is in need of further time off , then there are many possible options

- take annual leave
- take sick leave
- start late / finish early on flexi time to allow for school drop offs / collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:03 am 
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The 20 days will, presumably, only be availed of once (if at all) in their career for the vast majority of civil servants. And even then, they may choose not to take the whole 20 days. Some public servants take the piss on sick days and all the rest, but most, I think, are fairly diligent.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:55 am 
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Belview wrote:
- take sick leave

Ah here now. The number of people taking "sick leave" when they're not sick is already high enough. If they need bereavement leave just call it that.

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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:50 am 
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Did anyone here watch the RTE Investigates program last night, 'Waiting on the List'? Anyone see it? Eye opening stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Public Service Costs - The Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:22 am 
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Whatever about the death of a spouse or a child - the notion that I'd get a full week off, on full pay after my elderly mother-in-law died after a long spell in a nursing home, is ridiculous. And a day off when my uncle died in Australia a few years back? (I met him once - around 1978.) Crazy. In a country where in the past, large families were the norm - there are always plenty of elderly aunts and uncles around the place.

And a full five days off for a parent or grandparent and the same for in-laws. That's eight potential weeks off right there - on full pay. Add in brother-in-law, sister-in-law etc and the potential extra time off increases hugely. Very generous.

(I'm sure all those in favor of this will agree that the benefit should be extended by law to all employees - including the self-employed by way of a generous tax credit? It'll do wonders for productivity - especially in the public service.)

http://www.impact.ie/civil-service-bere ... increased/
The maximum level of leave available on the death of a close family member (father, mother, brother, brother-in-law, sister, sister-in-law, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandfather, grandmother or grandchild of an officer) will be 5 days.


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