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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 pm 
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I never tire of watching the Fine Gael supporters defend the DUP, but it might be better to take it to another thread.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:47 pm 
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I thought the better criticism of Sinn Fein came from Fianna Fail who asked how can Sinn Fein criticise Fianna Fail for abstaining on the no confidence motion against FG when Sinn Fein abstained on the SDLP/UUP no confidence motion against Arlene Foster, even after the Jonathon Bell interview and the BBC programmes on the cash for ash scandal.

Sinn Fein only collapsed the Assembly because the DUP forced them into it. My view is it suited the DUP to have the Government collapse to avoid prolonged questioning and further revelations over the 'cash for ash' controversy.

Any word on the process used for selecting the SF leader in the North yet - who got consulted or got a vote in that one? It doesn't appear to have been the MLAs or the general membership.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
I never tire of watching the Fine Gael supporters defend the DUP, but it might be better to take it to another thread.

:roll: That's the best you've got!
And believe me, I'm no FG supporter/fan/cheerleader/whatever your having yourself


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
I never tire of watching the Fine Gael supporters defend the DUP, but it might be better to take it to another thread.

It's a bit rich calling people out as FG supporters when you regularly moan about being identified as a Shinner.

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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:25 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
And I wasn't aware that the enquiry into 'cash for ash' was already done and dusted and that the DUP had findings against them for fraud!

In fairness, there were two senior DUP ministers (one of them the first minister) accusing each other of lying in relation to a public policy that was to cost Northern Ireland hundreds of millions. Each saying the other had intimidated (and that really was the language) them into maintaining the policy after they tried to put a stop to it.

At least one of them was lying (maybe both).

If one of them was telling the truth, then a DUP minister was intimidating a party colleague to maintain what was essentially at that stage a known scam (even if it started as an innocent mistake/miscalculation).

The first minister needed to step aside: either she was lying or she was presiding over an absolute fiasco and had lost discipline in her party.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:00 pm 
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I have no doubt the DUP are up to theirs necks in this and some shenanigans have gone on, but to make it out as though fraud has been found against them at this stage is a tad premature to say the least


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
I never tire of watching the Fine Gael supporters defend the DUP, but it might be better to take it to another thread.


Just because someone challenges the SF propaganda it does not mean they are a FG supporter.

In fact, I have never voted for FG. Can you say you have never spent an evening canvassing on behalf of SF :)


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:24 pm 
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Negative Covenant wrote:
I thought the better criticism of Sinn Fein came from Fianna Fail who asked how can Sinn Fein criticise Fianna Fail for abstaining on the no confidence motion against FG when Sinn Fein abstained on the SDLP/UUP no confidence motion against Arlene Foster, even after the Jonathon Bell interview and the BBC programmes on the cash for ash scandal.

Sinn Fein only collapsed the Assembly because the DUP forced them into it. My view is it suited the DUP to have the Government collapse to avoid prolonged questioning and further revelations over the 'cash for ash' controversy.

Any word on the process used for selecting the SF leader in the North yet - who got consulted or got a vote in that one? It doesn't appear to have been the MLAs or the general membership.

It was one of those special democratic processes that involves a meeting between Gerry and a few of his buddies from the old days :)

Don't worry it will be ratified by the members once they have been told how to vote.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:54 am 
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Great to see Michael McDowell is representing Maurice McCabe. If anyone knows how the State abuses due process he does.

Former Attorney General Michael McDowell calls on Garda Commissioner to step aside, - Independent.ie

Michael McDowell wrote:
"As a former Tánaiste, Minister for Justice, and Attorney General I believe I am in a good position to form an opinion as to whether it is appropriate or inappropriate for the Commissioner against whom the gravest allegations of misconduct have been made and will not be able to exercise that authority and to exercise those functions while the tribunal is being organised and while it is investigated over a period of three months.

The relationship between the government and the Commissioner of an Garda Síochána must be based on confidence. Confidence in anyone’s language includes a solid belief that the person in question is truthful and reliable in every respect.

Confidence cannot be said to exist if sufficient doubt exists in the mind of the government in respect of the gravest allegations to warrant the establishment of a tribunal of enquiry.

Moreover, it is totally inconceivable that officers including senior officers of a disciplined force should be asked in public to accuse the person on charge of them of grave misbehaviour in evidence, and furthermore to instruct counsel to cross examine that person as to her honesty, reliability and suitability for office."


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Does McDowell not have a major conflict of interest here?
He's providing legal advice to Maurice McCabe and at the same time is a Senator. And so in the Seanad yesterday calls for the Garda Commissioner to step down.

Has to be a conflict of interest.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:22 pm 
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I don't see the conflict of interest. The Garda Commissioner is not on trial.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
The Garda Commissioner is not on trial.

Too much to hope for.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:27 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
london_irish wrote:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fine-gael-td-a-senior-garda-came-to-me-with-mccabe-smears-35452622.html
Quote:
A second member of the Dáil's Public Accounts Committee has said that he was contacted by a senior member of An Garda Siochana shortly before garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe appeared before the committee and that that garda told him Mr McCabe "couldn't be trusted".

And then...
Quote:
Mr Deasy went on to say he spoke to Taoiseach Enda Kenny privately a few weeks after the approach by the garda to discuss Mr McCabe and the "entire affair".
"At that meeting I sad to him that I believe Maurice McCabe would be vindicated that he was being treated extremely badly and that he was genuine and that this needed to be handled completely differently," he said.
He said Mr Kenny listened and acknowledged it and the meeting ended.

Enda has to go or the Goverment collapses.


Wow Deasy decided not to back up John McGuinness. Says something about him. This latest revelation says he's worried about being dragged into this and losing his seat.

I think it's worth noting that some of the people spreading these rumours believed them. So you have
- the creators and protectors of the false file and all the messing over that
- the deciders and co ordinators on spreading the rumour
- the lower level spreaders who may have actually believed what they were spreading
- the recipients like Deasy and Rabbitte

There's not enough focus on the first group IMO. All the noise is around the bottom two.


Have to agree.

Theres been very little focus on Tusla and its facilitation of the rape/sexual abuse allegations, not just in the McCAbe case but in the cases of the other whistleblowers also. Surely these actions are absolutely horrific in the context of an agency whose remit is the protection of children?

When before in Ireland have we seen/heard an entity, whose charter is cased in the language of 'love', use the welfare of children as a means to wield state and societal power? And if theres nothing to hide why aren't immediate moves being made to ensure that the agency is (and appears to be publicly) squeaky clean? Surely that should be imperative? Even above or at least in tandem with the matter of Garda McCAbe?

Instead you're being presented with the standard political circus/noise ie who gets what job nonsense. We've seen it all before....

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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:02 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
london_irish wrote:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fine-gael-td-a-senior-garda-came-to-me-with-mccabe-smears-35452622.html
Quote:
A second member of the Dáil's Public Accounts Committee has said that he was contacted by a senior member of An Garda Siochana shortly before garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe appeared before the committee and that that garda told him Mr McCabe "couldn't be trusted".

And then...
Quote:
Mr Deasy went on to say he spoke to Taoiseach Enda Kenny privately a few weeks after the approach by the garda to discuss Mr McCabe and the "entire affair".
"At that meeting I sad to him that I believe Maurice McCabe would be vindicated that he was being treated extremely badly and that he was genuine and that this needed to be handled completely differently," he said.
He said Mr Kenny listened and acknowledged it and the meeting ended.

Enda has to go or the Goverment collapses.


Wow Deasy decided not to back up John McGuinness.

That went over my head a few days back, but it really is remarkable. John Deasy (FG) and John McGuinness (FF) were both on the Public Accounts Committee. They were both approached by senior Gardaí to discredit Maurice McCabe before he appeared before PAC (January 2014) but neither saw fill to reveal their meetings to the PAC or the O'Higgins Inquiry.

John McGuinness waited two and a half years before revealing the meeting, and he only did so AFTER the O'Higgin's Commission reported in May 2016.. Why did he not inform Justice O'Higgins about the nature of the meeting when the inquiry was sitting? Would he have revealed the secret meeting if O'Higgins hadn't found in favour of McCabe? Of course he wouldn't. It would have all been covered over and let to rot.

John McGuinness has some serious questions to answer here, but let's look for a moment at John Deasy. That fucker was happy to just tell the Taoiseach about his secret meeting (January 2014) with senior Gardaí and even after the McGuinness revelation (May 2016) he still stayed schtum until he finally realised that the game was up (February 2017)

A lot of heads need to roll.


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 Post subject: Re: If you're the police, who'll police the police?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:24 am 
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Sunday Mail claims exclusive
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