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 Post subject: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:26 am 
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Do you want to change the way we elect TDs?
http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-electoral-system-constitutional-convention-891977-May2013/

Personally I think we should abolish the party whip system. If we are to outsource our vote to an elected representative, they should be free to vote which ever way they choose on the matter of the day, and not be force to tow the party line. Too many hide behind this system.

The multi-seat constituency is a disaster.

Background/Training: if you want to be finance minister should you have some training in economics/finance?

Should term limits be imposed. We need fresh blood, not the same bald fat old men repeating the same mistakes. So no more than 3 terms or 10 years. This would have cut short the carers of Berti, Biffo and many others.

Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.


Submissions can be made here: http://www.constitution.ie/

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:40 am 
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Magpie wrote:
Do you want to change the way we elect TDs?
http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-electoral-system-constitutional-convention-891977-May2013/

Personally I think we should abolish the party whip system. If we are to outsource our vote to an elected representative, they should be free to vote which ever way they choose on the matter of the day, and not be force to tow the party line. Too many hide behind this system.

The multi-seat constituency is a disaster.

Background/Training: if you want to be finance minister should you have some training in economics/finance?

Should term limits be imposed. We need fresh blood, not the same bald fat old men repeating the same mistakes. So no more than 3 terms or 10 years. This would have cut short the carers of Berti, Biffo and many others.

Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.


Submissions can be made here: http://www.constitution.ie/


I'd abolish the party system altogether!!!

I'd examin what our needs are - we need a coterie of managers to manager the various portfolios like the CEO's of companies. secondly, we need legislators who will legislate according to their stated positions in their election manifestos - you dont need 183 of them!!! like a govenor for each county or portion of the population. You'd also need to break power in the senior ranks of the Civil Service to end the circle jerk of cross appointments and familiar faces pulling the levers.

The current system is based on a system developed in Greece/Rome over 2 thousand years ago - its long overdue an overhaul - politics has become a career - it shouldnt be as very quickly the career part becomes in coflict with your representative duties.


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:46 am 
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Magpie wrote:
Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.
That's very dangerous territory. I'm sure Irish civil servants have plenty of faults, but I certainly would not give Irish politicians the possibility to hire and fire them.
Can you imagine how porky that would become?


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:55 am 
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ex-Patrick wrote:
Magpie wrote:
Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.
That's very dangerous territory. I'm sure Irish civil servants have plenty of faults, but I certainly would not give Irish politicians the possibility to hire and fire them.
Can you imagine how porky that would become?


As it stands I would wholly agree with you. But if we did have system of government that approached what you might call functional and progressive, it would be hamstrung by the civil servants who oppose change.


alejandro wrote:

I'd abolish the party system altogether!!!

I'd examin what our needs are - we need a coterie of managers to manager the various portfolios like the CEO's of companies. secondly, we need legislators who will legislate according to their stated positions in their election manifestos - you dont need 183 of them!!!


How would these 'CEOs' get appointed to the heads of the various portfolios?

We certainly do not need 183 TDs, most of whom make little or no contribution to the Dáil other than to vote with the whip!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:11 am 
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Magpie wrote:

Should term limits be imposed. We need fresh blood, not the same bald fat old men repeating the same mistakes. So no more than 3 terms or 10 years. This would have cut short the carers of Berti, Biffo and many others.



yes

2 terms in the dail then leave for one and if you want you can return

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:14 am 
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Magpie wrote:
Do you want to change the way we elect TDs?

The multi-seat constituency is a disaster.



is this because they keep making the multi seats smaller, its possible to have a 9 seater

the last seats tend to go to smaller parties/independents whish is why they keep cutting the numer of seats in a constituency

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singularity, as it implies a contempt of the general practice, is a kind of defiance which justly provokes hostility or ridicule; he, therefore, who indulges in peculiar traits is worse than others, if he be not better. - Dr Johnson

the meek ain't gonna inherit shit


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
ex-Patrick wrote:
Magpie wrote:
Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.
That's very dangerous territory. I'm sure Irish civil servants have plenty of faults, but I certainly would not give Irish politicians the possibility to hire and fire them.
Can you imagine how porky that would become?


As it stands I would wholly agree with you. But if we did have system of government that approached what you might call functional and progressive, it would be hamstrung by the civil servants who oppose change.


alejandro wrote:

I'd abolish the party system altogether!!!

I'd examin what our needs are - we need a coterie of managers to manager the various portfolios like the CEO's of companies. secondly, we need legislators who will legislate according to their stated positions in their election manifestos - you dont need 183 of them!!!


How would these 'CEOs' get appointed to the heads of the various portfolios?

We certainly do not need 183 TDs, most of whom make little or no contribution to the Dáil other than to vote with the whip!!!


I'm not too sure how you'd appoint them, allow certain public administrators a vote, have a shortlist of candidates for each portfolio professionally vetted. What there needs to be is accountability and an approach that attempts to give the job to a pro, not to a TD who gets a portfolio based on whether his party is in power or not and how good he is at licking the party leaders arse - it is a crazy basis to give such an unqualified person such a senior managerial role. In essence I'd depoliticize the day to day running of the country to allow proper managers to perform and evaluate their performance - a political affiliation would be a bar to taking up a portfolio!


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
Also should Politicians be allowed to hire and fire senior civil servants?
Too many whispers about senior civil servants running the country and blocking the politician of the day.


Politicians are allowed hire senior civil servants unless, of course, you take the view that politicians have no influence over senior civil servant (A/Sec & Sec Gen) appointments made by TLAC?


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:00 pm 
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alejandro wrote:
You'd also need to break power in the senior ranks of the Civil Service to end the circle jerk of cross appointments and familiar faces pulling the levers.


I can't see this happening anytime soon as the situation is too comfortable for politicians as they have civil servants who will carry out their every wish regardless of how bad the end result is for the country. We need to fundamentally relook at what type of civil servant TLAC has produced and also what type of civil service we want and how we go about getting it. We have just been through the greatest period of policy failure in the history of the State but yet nobody has questioned SMI or TLAC. Despite the policy failures the ship has just sailed on.


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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Have multi-seat county council constituencies, with more power devolved to county level. Have about 50 TD's - one for an average county - that are elected to deal with national matters only.

Put strict rules in place to separate TD's from councillors. Ensure that TD's are expressly barred from interfering or attempting to influence matters at a county level e.g. planning, medical cards, potholes.

We have a gombeem culture. Let the Lowry and Healy-Rae types do their slimeball routines at county level and attract higher calibre people to parliament.

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:08 pm 
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FirstBass wrote:
Have multi-seat county council constituencies, with more power devolved to county level. Have about 50 TD's - one for an average county - that are elected to deal with national matters only.

Put strict rules in place to separate TD's from councillors. Ensure that TD's are expressly barred from interfering or attempting to influence matters at a county level e.g. planning, medical cards, potholes.

We have a gombeem culture. Let the Lowry and Healy-Rae types do their slimeball routines at county level and attract higher calibre people to parliament.


This

But I am concerned that I won't be able to pull a few strokes to get my kids into the secondary school I want...... :roll:

Also.....First past the post

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 12:20 am 
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I'm not sure these days if democracy actually works in practice - as the saying goes it is the worst possible form of government, apart from all the others. All the others that we've tried so far, anyway.

It does seem very prone to populist pork trough-snouting, unaccountability, dynastic families, localism/clientelism, secretive and authoritarian cabals in the upper levels of the civil service, and wholesale capture by vested interests leading to pilfering of taxpayers money on a colossal scale. By no means are those flaws just in Ireland either.

So tinkering with voting systems and so on seems a bit of a waste of time really, none of it seems to me to actually address the fundamental flaws that need fixing.

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:53 am 
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The options being looked at
http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-alte ... 0-May2013/

PR-STV
making current constituencies larger
making current constituencies smaller

Similar to NI or UK

The List System
Closed List
Open List
Free List

Or a mixture - 2/3rds elected by PR-STV and remainder elected by List, used in Germany and New Zeeland.

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 Post subject: Re: Constitutional Convention
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:04 am 
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Whatever happened to the 'We the Citizens' group - didn't they submit to the Constipational Convolution way back?
Very quite lately - the Abbey must be busy!


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