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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 3841
These rental allowance rates are crazy.
€1000 paid for rental in Dublin for those on welfare. A worker is at a huge disadvantage straight away in the game of keeping a roof over their head.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jun 24, 2010
Posts: 2046
Location: Dublin 12
Crazy indeed:
I could never understand why Landlords needed Welfare meself!


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Feb 9, 2009
Posts: 318
It makes my blood boil. The RAS also gives renters in receipt of rent allowance longer leases (4 years average) and security of tenure which working renters can only dream of. It's extremely rare to get a lease of over a year in normal circumstances. Another disincentive to provide for yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Posts: 1465
paracetomol wrote:
It makes my blood boil. The RAS also gives renters in receipt of rent allowance longer leases (4 years average) and security of tenure which working renters can only dream of. It's extremely rare to get a lease of over a year in normal circumstances. Another disincentive to provide for yourself.


Welcome to the most generous, no-questions-asked, how-much-do-you-want, Welfare system in the World.

It is simply, unbelievable.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 328
It's not about being generous, and it's very believable....ask why is this being done?


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:45 am 
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Joined: Apr 2, 2008
Posts: 1578
Location: Cork and Kerry
snaps wrote:
It's not about being generous, and it's very believable....ask why is this being done?



Mmm,
1. To maintain support for the government?
2. To maintain support for the elected representatives?
3. To maintain support for others living off the public purse?
4. To maintain the Status Quo?

Do I get a prize?

(Or are these the wrong answers? :nin ) Submissions on a postcard please to your local T.D. or Cllr.

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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:55 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 7435
Location: To the right of the decimal place
Related question: is there any research re demographics of actual voters in the last general election? Do people on the dole actually vote disproportionately to taxpayers?

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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:13 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 3841
They don't have to be voters. Just keeping them docile and not engaged is sufficient to retain the status quo.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:18 am 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Feb 9, 2009
Posts: 318
Higher than average amount of welfare recipients in Joanie's constituency, which is why she's the wrong woman for the job.

I have to add, I'm more angry at the BTL landlords whose bad investments are kept afloat by this crap. A young colleague of mine has just stepped off the lone parent/welfare treadmill into fulltime work and told me that in the last year, her landlord refused to accept the cut in rent allowance. She didn't want to move house so he simply lied on the rent allowance form that he'd cut the rent, and she paid the difference herself. I wonder how widespread this is? The welfare recipient is worse off, the taxpayer is still on the hook, rents are still high for working people, but Mr Canny (her landlord has six gaffs. He is a schoolteacher) gets to keep his empire, paid for by other people. My colleague is worse off in fulltime employment financially but doesn't want a life on the scratch for herself and her daughter, and hopes that things will get better for them in a couple of years. I hope she's right.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 207
paracetomol wrote:

It still shafts fulltime working renters though, qualifying for no welfare benefits while competing in a rigged housing market.


The logic is as follows. Currently a jump from zero work to full-time work means you can move from full rent allowance to no rent allowance. For those with some combination of low earnings/long commute/childcare costs this can serve as a serious disincentive to taking up work. Retaining housing benefit for a time after a return to work means that the jump is not so discrete.

I'm not saying this is optimal or not, just that this is the rationale for the policy change. It's the same with the medical card, you can keep it for up to three years if your new earnings take you over the threshold.


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:48 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Dublin
paracetomol wrote:
Higher than average amount of welfare recipients in Joanie's constituency, which is why she's the wrong woman for the job.

I have to add, I'm more angry at the BTL landlords whose bad investments are kept afloat by this crap. A young colleague of mine has just stepped off the lone parent/welfare treadmill into fulltime work and told me that in the last year, her landlord refused to accept the cut in rent allowance. She didn't want to move house so he simply lied on the rent allowance form that he'd cut the rent, and she paid the difference herself. I wonder how widespread this is? The welfare recipient is worse off, the taxpayer is still on the hook, rents are still high for working people, but Mr Canny (her landlord has six gaffs. He is a schoolteacher) gets to keep his empire, paid for by other people. My colleague is worse off in fulltime employment financially but doesn't want a life on the scratch for herself and her daughter, and hopes that things will get better for them in a couple of years. I hope she's right.


As a person who is now a landlord (and also a tenant), without having planned it (bar trying to leave something to a child etc etc) - on behalf of those people like me out there I would like to make a few points:

    never wanted to be a landlord; bought into "safe investment for the kids etc"
    used to be an amateur re: tax; not any more because we are hammered every year (am a PAYE worker)
    didnt want to spend 1/4 p.a. of my wknds trying to sort things for tenants - plumbing, cant switch on the heating etc etc etc etc
    in my 10 yrs experienece of being a landlord of 1-5 properties, most, and I mean at least 80% of tenants are disrespectful, liars and welfare fraudsters and the most NB thing is How can I get more for less next year
    I am trying to buy a house for my family and we are in the same boat as you - but probably worse off because most LLs are in neg eq - having dipped our fat toes and got burnt
    I pay every bill, settle my tax every year etc etc - I just cannot understand how "I" am enemy number one for people on this site?
    I know at least a dozen accidental landlords like myself - who, like me try to pay every bill etc...basically try to be an upstanding tax paying citizen...like your good selves
    Completely unrelated but as a reader of this site, can someone provide me with the latest list of super-posters and their latest usernames as I cant keep up - actually on that, why do you start with a new username and just not reset your password?

Anyhoos - my rambling point is "Yes, we would all like permanently cheaper shelter" and "No, those bstrds LLs caused this" - because like you and me, we are all just trying to get on as best we can for our families, kids blah blah.

Like it or not, us accidental LLs (like fat little me) fulfill a service/function in our society which all of our hefty taxes are supposed to cover but don't - so what would you suggest??

I earn €75k pa (nice wage - worked v hard), have 2 kids under 18 months, pay pension levy and pay an extra €600 per month over rents received to cover 2 mortgages on 2 houses that I rent out "accidentally" as part of my long term sensible plan, my car is 01D, can't afford to take a foreign holiday - never mind NPPR, LPT, fees, etc etc etc etc, void months, taking holidays to attend PRTB adjudication meetings where they ask me for the address of ex-tenants who owe me €5k.... which I will never see

I allow myself strictly €125 pw for everything not spent by/for the family to live on.

So tell me I am your "enemy" - did I cause this monumental FK UP or not? Personally, I dont think I did.... but flame away....
lol - almost clicked delete and almost decided not to post this... but hell... off we go again on the circular arguments :)


edit: yes - booze on board :)

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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:48 am 
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Old Time Landlord

Joined: Oct 20, 2012
Posts: 384
Daithi31 wrote:
paracetomol wrote:
Higher than average amount of welfare recipients in Joanie's constituency, which is why she's the wrong woman for the job.

I have to add, I'm more angry at the BTL landlords whose bad investments are kept afloat by this crap. A young colleague of mine has just stepped off the lone parent/welfare treadmill into fulltime work and told me that in the last year, her landlord refused to accept the cut in rent allowance. She didn't want to move house so he simply lied on the rent allowance form that he'd cut the rent, and she paid the difference herself. I wonder how widespread this is? The welfare recipient is worse off, the taxpayer is still on the hook, rents are still high for working people, but Mr Canny (her landlord has six gaffs. He is a schoolteacher) gets to keep his empire, paid for by other people. My colleague is worse off in fulltime employment financially but doesn't want a life on the scratch for herself and her daughter, and hopes that things will get better for them in a couple of years. I hope she's right.


As a person who is now a landlord (and also a tenant), without having planned it (bar trying to leave something to a child etc etc) - on behalf of those people like me out there I would like to make a few points:

    never wanted to be a landlord; bought into "safe investment for the kids etc"
    used to be an amateur re: tax; not any more because we are hammered every year (am a PAYE worker)
    didnt want to spend 1/4 p.a. of my wknds trying to sort things for tenants - plumbing, cant switch on the heating etc etc etc etc
    in my 10 yrs experienece of being a landlord of 1-5 properties, most, and I mean at least 80% of tenants are disrespectful, liars and welfare fraudsters and the most NB thing is How can I get more for less next year
    I am trying to buy a house for my family and we are in the same boat as you - but probably worse off because most LLs are in neg eq - having dipped our fat toes and got burnt
    I pay every bill, settle my tax every year etc etc - I just cannot understand how "I" am enemy number one for people on this site?
    I know at least a dozen accidental landlords like myself - who, like me try to pay every bill etc...basically try to be an upstanding tax paying citizen...like your good selves
    Completely unrelated but as a reader of this site, can someone provide me with the latest list of super-posters and their latest usernames as I cant keep up - actually on that, why do you start with a new username and just not reset your password?

Anyhoos - my rambling point is "Yes, we would all like permanently cheaper shelter" and "No, those bstrds LLs caused this" - because like you and me, we are all just trying to get on as best we can for our families, kids blah blah.

Like it or not, us accidental LLs (like fat little me) fulfill a service/function in our society which all of our hefty taxes are supposed to cover but don't - so what would you suggest??

I earn €75k pa (nice wage - worked v hard), have 2 kids under 18 months, pay pension levy and pay an extra €600 per month over rents received to cover 2 mortgages on 2 houses that I rent out "accidentally" as part of my long term sensible plan, my car is 01D, can't afford to take a foreign holiday - never mind NPPR, LPT, fees, etc etc etc etc, void months, taking holidays to attend PRTB adjudication meetings where they ask me for the address of ex-tenants who owe me €5k.... which I will never see

I allow myself strictly €125 pw for everything not spent by/for the family to live on.

So tell me I am your "enemy" - did I cause this monumental FK UP or not? Personally, I dont think I did.... but flame away....
lol - almost clicked delete and almost decided not to post this... but hell... off we go again on the circular arguments :)


edit: yes - booze on board :)


Image

here this is for you

and yes you are the "enemy"

people like you run the country and have made it what it is

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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:07 am 
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Neo Landlord

Joined: Feb 18, 2013
Posts: 255
What's an accidental landlord?


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:25 am 
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Speculator

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 414
How can you be an accidental landlord with more than one house?


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 Post subject: Re: Welfare keeps economy going, says Joan Burton
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:33 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Oct 3, 2008
Posts: 3485
paracetomol wrote:
Higher than average amount of welfare recipients in Joanie's constituency, which is why she's the wrong woman for the job.

I have to add, I'm more angry at the BTL landlords whose bad investments are kept afloat by this crap. A young colleague of mine has just stepped off the lone parent/welfare treadmill into fulltime work and told me that in the last year, her landlord refused to accept the cut in rent allowance. She didn't want to move house so he simply lied on the rent allowance form that he'd cut the rent, and she paid the difference herself. I wonder how widespread this is? The welfare recipient is worse off, the taxpayer is still on the hook, rents are still high for working people, but Mr Canny (her landlord has six gaffs. He is a schoolteacher) gets to keep his empire, paid for by other people. My colleague is worse off in fulltime employment financially but doesn't want a life on the scratch for herself and her daughter, and hopes that things will get better for them in a couple of years. I hope she's right.


A friend of mine recently rented his family home out, I advertised it for him and fielded the queries myself. It's a nice family home in a well established area where similiar houses rent for 50 euro less than his asking (and in my opinion this rent is way too high for that area by about 150 euro). It was rented out in 3 days.

Out of 11 enquiries, 6 were on RA, 3 were groups of singles looking to share and 2 were working families.

The RA recipients and the house sharers made no attempt to negotiate the rent.

The asking rent was 250 more than the RA ceiling.

When I pointed out to the RA recipients that the rent was above the RA ceiling, they all said they'd pay the balance in cash.

I'm not trying to say that this is indicitive of the entire market, but it certainly appeared to be "normal" practice to those that I spoke to.

The working families negotiated and he rented it out to one of them for 100 less than his asking.


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