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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I think it is staffed by people such as John Perry and Michael Lowry...and said individuals are paid exorbitant amounts by international standards....see where Im going with this??

Correlation/causation.

I blame the people who selected, elected and promoted these clowns.


I also think that 'liberal democracy' has a lot to answer for...

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Last edited by Poacher turned gamekeeper on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Magpie wrote:
It would seem that John Perry had his own mini-nama, expenses
http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perr ... ge-claims/
Quote:
Small Business Minister John Perry managed to claim almost €30,000 in mileage expenses in less than 11 months.
The Fine Gael TD even managed to claim for 4,417kms in a month in which only two official appointments are listed in his diary. The Minister had an engagement in Wexford and one in Tuam, which is just a short drive from his home in Ballymote, Co Sligo.
Interesting.....
James Reilly is consulting his logarithmic tables book as we speak and I for one am confident that the answer will be 4417, rounded to the nearest km. The Tuam Herald may well go for a 24 page supplement on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I also think that 'liberal democracy' has a lot to answer for...

I think it's a local problem.

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I think it is staffed by people such as John Perry and Michael Lowry...and said individuals are paid exorbitant amounts by international standards....see where Im going with this??

Correlation/causation.

I blame the people who selected, elected and promoted these clowns.


I also think that 'liberal democracy' has a lot to answer for...

As an outsider, it seems to me that the 'macro' or e.g. the 'greater good' is rarely considered here.

Broadly, for [insert reason here], the people who do the electing chose the candidate who most resembles them or at least embodies their aspirations. And once elected, it seems politicians tend to have a hard time distinguishing themselves from the state: "L'état, c'est moi." (Henry XIV, 1655). So what's in their own personal interest *must* be in the state's interest.

In Ireland, it seems to me that there is very little checking of this tendency. Am I wrong? Perhaps given Irish history, expectations are kept low...?

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Elka wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I think it is staffed by people such as John Perry and Michael Lowry...and said individuals are paid exorbitant amounts by international standards....see where Im going with this??

Correlation/causation.

I blame the people who selected, elected and promoted these clowns.


I also think that 'liberal democracy' has a lot to answer for...

As an outsider, it seems to me that the 'macro' or e.g. the 'greater good' is rarely considered here.

Broadly, for [insert reason here], the people who do the electing chose the candidate who most resembles them or at least embodies their aspirations.


The greater good doesn't really come in for any serious consideration.

The electorate are dodgy, hence they elect those most like them - i.e. dodgy politicians.

If the majority of the electorate would evade tax given half the chance, they have no problem electing a candidate who did just that.

On a more general point, if society is individualistic, then it is unwise to believe a politician will suddenly leave their individual tendencies aside and suddenly look after everyone the moment they are elected.


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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Elka wrote:
Broadly, for [insert reason here], the people who do the electing chose the candidate who most resembles them or at least embodies their aspirations. And once elected, it seems politicians tend to have a hard time distinguishing themselves from the state: "L'état, c'est moi." (Henry XIV, 1655). So what's in their own personal interest *must* be in the state's interest.

In Ireland, it seems to me that there is very little checking of this tendency. Am I wrong? Perhaps given Irish history, expectations are kept low...?


Louis rather than Harry?

Lots of delusional chancers (my iPad keeps typing chancres which will do just as well) in Canada too but we do a better job of keeping them in check e.g. our federal Auditor General's Office seems to be far more effective and ambitious than Ireland's.


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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:47 pm 
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Urbanised peasants. Lacking in moral courage. Never speak out with the courage of real independent conviction, rather maintain a self-interested silence. (Probably lack the mind to do so in most cases. Too busy doing stuff to think at all). These days that silence takes the form of continuous inane blabber on channels like twitter and on the radio. Only paving the way for another Mussolini, unfortunately.

EDIT - There is a big difference between society and individuals. But what is most upsetting about our society is there is less an less space to be individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:05 am 
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Ardillaun wrote:
Elka wrote:
"L'état, c'est moi." (Henry XIV, 1655).


Louis rather than Harry?


Zut - you're right! I'd been watching something re. Henry VIII...

Ardillaun wrote:
Lots of delusional chancers (my iPad keeps typing chancres which will do just as well) in Canada too but we do a better job of keeping them in check e.g. our federal Auditor General's Office seems to be far more effective and ambitious than Ireland's.

I agree - it's a perpetual/eternal dialogue between those in power and those not in power, but with the remit to keep things in check. Something something 'eternal vigilance'?

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:49 am 
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Quote:
Only paving the way for another Mussolini, unfortunately.

Just wanted to explain what I mean by that.

If you look to some of the writings of Mussolini, you see many of the same forces that made many people think fascism was a good idea (like WB Yeats for example) getting stronger in tendency. ie. the democratic will of the people becoming more and more base, weak and stupid. We can also see if you read the last paragraph below, how there is already a fascist tendency becoming stronger in our government (in tacit cooperation with the media and other institutions of social, business and political life), and indeed, in all western governments.

Mussolini wrote:
… Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number ; but it is the purest form of democracy if the nation be considered as it should be from the point of view of quality rather than quantity, as an idea, the mightiest because the most ethical, the most coherent, the truest, expressing itself in a people as the conscience and will of the few, if not, indeed, of one, and ending to express itself in the conscience and the will of the mass, of the whole group ethnically molded by natural and historical conditions into a nation, advancing, as one conscience and one will, along the self same line of development and spiritual formation…

… After socialism, Fascism trains its guns on the whole block of democratic ideologies, and rejects both their premises and their practical applications and implements. Fascism denies that numbers, as such, can be the determining factor in human society; it denies the right of numbers to govern by means of periodical consultations; it asserts the irremediable and fertile and beneficent inequality of men who cannot be leveled by any such mechanical and extrinsic device as universal suffrage. Democratic regimes may be described as those under which the people are, from time to time, deluded into the belief that they exercise sovereignty, while all the time real sovereignty resides in and is exercised by other and sometimes irresponsible and secret forces. Democracy is a kingless regime infested by many kings who are sometimes more exclusive, tyrannical, and destructive than one, even if he be a tyrant. This explains why Fascism - although, for contingent reasons, it was republican in tendency prior to 1922 - abandoned that stand before the March on Rome, convinced that the form of government is no longer a matter of preeminent importance, and because the study of past and present monarchies and past and present republics shows that neither monarchy nor republic can be judged sub specie aeternitatis, but that each stands for a form of government expressing the political evolution, the history, the traditions, and the psychology of a given country.

Fascism has outgrown the dilemma: monarchy v. republic, over which democratic regimes too long dallied, attributing all insufficiencies to the former and proning the latter as a regime of perfection, whereas experience teaches that some republics are inherently reactionary and absolutist while some monarchies accept the most daring political and social experiments.

In one of his philosophic Meditations Renan - who had prefascist intuitions remarks, "Reason and science are the products of mankind, but it is chimerical to seek reason directly for the people and through the people. It is not essential to the existence of reason that all should be familiar with it; and even if all had to be initiated, this could not be achieved through democracy which seems fated to lead to the extinction of all arduous forms of culture and all highest forms of learning. The maxim that society exists only for the well-being and freedom of the individuals composing it does not seem to be in conformity with nature's plans, which care only for the species and seem ready to sacrifice the individual. It is much to be feared that the last word of democracy thus understood (and let me hasten to add that it is susceptible of a different interpretation) would be a form of society in which a degenerate mass would have no thought beyond that of enjoying the ignoble pleasures of the vulgar".

In rejecting democracy Fascism rejects the absurd conventional lie of political equalitarianism, the habit of collective irresponsibility, the myth of felicity and indefinite progress. But if democracy be understood as meaning a regime in which the masses are not driven back to the margin of the State, and then the writer of these pages has already defined Fascism as an organized, centralized, authoritarian democracy.

Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere. The importance of liberalism in the XIXth century should not be exaggerated for present day polemical purposes, nor should we make of one of the many doctrines which flourished in that century a religion for mankind for the present and for all time to come. Liberalism really flourished for fifteen years only. It arose in 1830 as a reaction to the Holy Alliance which tried to force Europe to recede further back than 1789; it touched its zenith in 1848 when even Pius IXth was a liberal. Its decline began immediately after that year. If 1848 was a year of light and poetry, 1849 was a year of darkness and tragedy. The Roman Republic was killed by a sister republic, that of France . In that same year Marx, in his famous Communist Manifesto, launched the gospel of socialism…

… We are, in other words, a state which controls all forces acting in nature. We control political forces, we control moral forces we control economic forces, therefore we are a full-blown Corporative state.We stand for a new principle in the world, we stand for sheer, categorical, definitive antithesis to the world of democracy, plutocracy, free-masonry, to the world which still abides by the fundamental principles laid down in 1789…

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaste ... solini.htm


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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:30 am 
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Wow. I'd never read any Mussolini, imagining him to be a frothing at the mouth raving headbanger. But if he wrote that himself, then what a well spoken and erudite headbanger he was.

Regardless of the content, can you imagine Inda or Rabbitte or any of their cabinet writing something like the above? Can you imagine any of them have ever even considered what they believe in or stand for? Can they even write?

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:22 pm 
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FWIW I think it's also unrealistic to expect every politician to be good at all things. Of course the over-dependence on any particular background doesn't benefit anyone, and I would have thought that just like any org, you want people with particular skills to work in an area that most exploits those skills. So yeah, we do need teachers and business people in politics, but not *only* these. We also need *gasp* thinkers/academics, planners, economists, artists etc.

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Elka wrote:
FWIW I think it's also unrealistic to expect every politician to be good at all things. Of course the over-dependence on any particular background doesn't benefit anyone, and I would have thought that just like any org, you want people with particular skills to work in an area that most exploits those skills. So yeah, we do need teachers and business people in politics, but not *only* these. We also need *gasp* thinkers/academics, planners, economists, artists etc.


I would settle for three things in a politician

1) Integrity
2) Intelligence
3) One area of interest/expertise

Sadly I think both (1) and (2) are sorely lacking in the Dail. We have plenty of teachers though...

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:29 pm 
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But why would someone of integrity and intelligence want to preside over a rancid little republic such as ours?

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:46 am 
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To fix it?

Crazy talk, I know ...

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 Post subject: Re: WHEEERE's MY NAMA sez FG Minister of State John Perry.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:54 am 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I also think that 'liberal democracy' has a lot to answer for...

I think it's a local problem.

Image


Right.

So this type of carry on is unique to Ireland across first world societies ("democracies")....how very convenient for those who seek to defend the status quo, those who believe that democracy in its current guise offers choices....in Irish terms your choice equates to FF V FG ie Ray Burke/Liam Lawlor V John Perry/Michael Lowry....

Keep telling yourself whatever it is you want to believe and sure maybe some day it might come true...

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