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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:01 am 
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Punter wrote:
Ireland_is_different wrote:

I think the incompetence is ingrained in our government for the past 20 years,
just look at the Minister responsible for FAS spending 1 billion a year at a time of full employment and never thinking something was wrong!
I could go on and on, citing instances of stupidity in our governments.


So what happened about 20 years ago? It was decided to restructure the civil service and we introduced the Strategic Management Initiative (SMI) and the Top Level Appointment Committee (TLAC). TLAC handles all of the appointments of Secretaries General and essentially handled control of these appointments to politicians as Cabinet approves all of the appointments. So what was the result of these developments, we have had the greatest period of policy failure in the history of the State.


An Foras Forbatha? Scientists, Engineers and experts in the general world of land usage, good planning and infrastructure. Can't have that!


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:22 am 
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yoganmahew wrote:

Presumably, the general public thinks this means the end of 'austerity'...


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:36 am 
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the thing I could never get over was despite having been diagnosed with terminal cancer rather than spend the time with is family he choose to run for public office for FF knowing he would only serve a few monthes. that true sociopath behavior if I ever saw it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:33 am 
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corkfella wrote:
the thing I could never get over was despite having been diagnosed with terminal cancer rather than spend the time with is family he choose to run for public office for FF knowing he would only serve a few months. that true sociopath behavior if I ever saw it.

I would not classify it as the behaviour of a sociopath. More likely he stood in the shadow of his fathers legacy within FF and the deal was made that his family and reputation would be looked after. In reality the old hands in FF knew by late 2007 what the DoF role entailed - the common refrain I heard going into the 2007 election was "this was the one to lose" , how soon they knew about his terminal condition is anyones guess. The calculation was to let him take the fall, he was let continue in the role when his condition became public so that in any future inquiry the answer would be "you'll have to ask Brian that question, oh, he's not here....".


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:42 am 
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BoyRacer wrote:
how soon they knew about his terminal condition is anyones guess.



You know when they say "pancreatic" ........

But I take your point.

_________________
Profits = Investment – Household Savings – Government Savings – Foreign Savings + Dividends

(i.e. company profits are directly fed, in part, by government deficits)

BANKS DON'T LEND RESERVES
As confirmed by the Bank of England


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:53 am 
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Daniel Plainview wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:
how soon they knew about his terminal condition is anyones guess.



You know when they say "pancreatic" ........

But I take your point.

This is a reliably fatal diagnosis. The best they would have given him was a % of his 2 year and 5 yrs survival.

He knew for a long time, basically since diagnosis that his chances of surviving the next few years were almost non existent.

Than man either was delusional or said f*€K it I cant face the prospect of spending more time with my family.

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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:51 am 
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David McWilliams: The night Lenihan banged on my front door -> http://www.independent.ie/entertainment ... 77796.html
31 October 2009

Quote:
The phone had rung about an hour before, so I was expecting him. Even so, as we'd never had a politician in our house, never mind a Minister for Finance, seeing the bulk of Brian Lenihan at the door came as a surprise.

In fact, I had only once met the minister before and that had been in an RTÉ radio studio for Saturday View less than two weeks previously, on September 6th. That day he was confident and calm. The man who appeared at my door was a different character. There was still the confidence and yet he was nervous and fidgety. His suit looked as if he'd slept in it. He had heavy bags under his eyes, his tie was undone and he held a copy of that day's Irish Independent.

Days before this late-night visit, Lehman Brothers had gone bust. That was on Saturday, September 13th. Merrill Lynch went on Sunday, 14th, and AIG -- the world's largest insurer -- went bang on Tuesday, 16th. The financial world was collapsing and the Irish banks were worth pennies, not pounds; cents not euros. The banks were running out of money.

Ordinary people were beginning to panic. We were starting to twig that we had been lied to. My mother had called me earlier in the day to ask whether she should take her life savings out of Bank of Ireland. I told her that the risk was now too great and there was only one thing that could be done: take your savings out and put them in a continental bank trading here. After all, the morons who got us, and their banks, into this mess wouldn't shed a tear for her, so why should she worry about them?

If something radical was not done and done quickly, it was crystal clear to me that the Irish banks would experience a traditional run, with depositors taking out their savings, and the banks would go bust. That one thing, at least, was certain.

The minister walked straight through the hall and headed directly into the kitchen as if he knew where he was going. Jaded, he sat down and turned off his phone.
<snip>
Then he pulled a bulb of garlic out of his pocket and started to peel it. It was one of the odd moments in a long night of odd moments. In subsequent meetings, the raw garlic was produced and squashed into bowls of soup. This time he just peeled a clove and left it on the table.

He explained to me that the garlic gave him strength and kept him healthy and alert. I had no reason to doubt him. He went on to say that he had been chomping raw garlic all summer, since he'd got the Finance job.

<snip>
I felt sorry for Brian Lenihan that night. He looked exhausted. He had been working day and night and he was trying to understand everything. This must have been very difficult for a man who had spent all his life in law. I thought to myself that this would be like me being thrown in as Attorney General in the middle of the country's worst constitutional crisis. I wouldn't know where to start.

He told me he'd been breaking himself into the job and economics by reading Alan Greenspan's biography.
<snip>
That night, even after a few minutes, it was clear that here was a man who could pick things up quickly. But we were starting pretty much from scratch. It was also obvious that he was, at best, sceptical about the advice he was getting. Given the spin that was coming out of the Government, I wasn't too surprised and I was quite relieved that he doubted the Regulator and the Governor of the Central Bank when they continued to parrot platitudes about the banks being fine and being stress-tested.

He kicked off by saying if his officials knew he was here in my house, there'd be war. They thought I was a maverick. I took it as a compliment.

He got to the point quickly. He was sitting opposite me and he had a habit of looking around rather than catching my eye as if he expected someone to join us at any minute. I told him we were on our own, just the pair of us and the puppy.

He leaned over and, in a hoarse voice, almost whispering, he said: "What would you do?"


there is more


So there you have it, he was self medicating in 2008. The mandarins were in denial and keeping their heads down trying to keep the lid on the sh!t can they'd played an active role in creating. Lehmans collapse had made it clear the Irish banks charade was about to be flushed away and they needed to act, but nobody was giving him any direction.


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Today’s Wealth Destruction Is Hidden by Government Debt - Philipp Bagus -> http://mises.org/daily/6593/Todays-Weal ... nment-Debt

Quote:
Still unnoticed by a large part of the population is that we have been living through a period of relative impoverishment. Money has been squandered in welfare spending, bailing out banks or even — as in Europe — of fellow governments. But many people still do not feel the pain.
However, malinvestments have destroyed an immense amount of real wealth. Government spending for welfare programs and military ventures has caused increasing public debts and deficits in the Western world. These debts will never be paid back in real terms.

there is more


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:01 pm 
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BoyRacer wrote:



Hardly need for the Mises gibberish in this thread too.

_________________
Profits = Investment – Household Savings – Government Savings – Foreign Savings + Dividends

(i.e. company profits are directly fed, in part, by government deficits)

BANKS DON'T LEND RESERVES
As confirmed by the Bank of England


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Daniel Plainview wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:


Hardly need for the Mises gibberish in this thread too.


Quote:
Many people believe the paper wealth they own in the form of government bonds, investment funds, insurance policies, bank deposits, and entitlements will provide them with nice sunset years. However, at retirement they will only be able to consume what is produced by the real economy. But the economy’s real production capacity has been severely distorted and reduced by government intervention. The paper wealth is backed to a great extent by hot air. The ongoing transfer of bad debts onto the balance sheets of governments and central banks cannot undo the destruction of wealth. Savers and pensioners will at some point find out that the real value of their wealth is much less than they expected. In which way, exactly, the illusion will be destroyed remains to be seen.


The article is relevant, people think we have "exited" the bailout and despite the backslapping all round by the PR people in the media, the reality is we are being lined up to be bailed in. You can see it readily in the busted pension funds, and valuation of inheritances as reality bites, no quantitative easing or accounting tricks will solve that.


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Whatever you think about Lenihan he has been the only politician to reduce public service pay and pension entitlements without any negotiation - none of the Croke Park Agreement or Haddington Road appeasement nonsense from him or indeed any promises to restore pay and pension cuts once the economy recovers.


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Belview wrote:
Whatever you think about Lenihan he has been the only politician to reduce public service pay and pension entitlements without any negotiation - none of the Croke Park Agreement or Haddington Road appeasement nonsense from him or indeed any promises to restore pay and pension cuts once the economy recovers.


His legacy though is that he propped up the establishment, he had a window of opportunity and an action plan that he never followed through on that would have rid us of fair share of the parasites that feed from the state trough and would have led to serious structural reform.


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:09 pm 
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She appears to not understand that exiting the bailout might be politically good, or good as a source of pride, but it is economically worse because we are no longer protected from the markets and no longer protected from ourselves (ie "now we've left the bailout I don't want any cuts to my welfare" etc).

So Lenihan didn't completely destroy the economy such that we can now leave the bailout prematurely? And that's news, is it?


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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:50 pm 
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johnnyskeleton wrote:
She appears to not understand that exiting the bailout might be politically good, or good as a source of pride, but it is economically worse because we are no longer protected from the markets and no longer protected from ourselves (ie "now we've left the bailout I don't want any cuts to my welfare" etc).

So Lenihan didn't completely destroy the economy such that we can now leave the bailout prematurely? And that's news, is it?
Ah johnny, she doesn't give a fuck so long as ministerial pensions aren't touched. It's probably important for her then that people be led to believe that ministers are other than entirely responsible for the catastrophe.

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 Post subject: Re: "Thank the brave Brian Lenihan when we exit the bailout
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:49 pm 
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BoyRacer wrote:
David McWilliams: The night Lenihan banged on my front door -> http://www.independent.ie/entertainment ... 77796.html
31 October 2009

Quote:
It was also obvious that he was, at best, sceptical about the advice he was getting.

this to me is typical of what I could see Jim Hacker say about Sir Humphrey!!
If there is a banking inquiry, will the full extent of this claim by the minister be examined,
I think it shows either poor management by the Minister not to have control over his senior civil servants,
or a sad state of affairs in Irish Politics where Ministers don't know what really is happening in their departments. Certainly would go a long way to explaining the whole nursing home fees fiasco with that gobshite Michael Martin and that civil servant that was later moved sidewords within the department!

Also thank you jake76, yes, i never even heard of first chief executive of the Financial Regulator Liam O'Reilly before your post! Yet another name to tell me my kids when they complain how their school prefabs are freezing this time of year. :evil:

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Former CEO of Bank of Ireland Mike Soden has said many of the people who took out buy-to-let mortgages used the money to fund lavish lifestyles. Who would have made the money, had the market not collapsed? The individual would have.
(http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/banks-to-use-rent-receivers-to-collect-buy-to-let-mortgages-561140.html)


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