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In the event of a Hard Brexit should Ireland join the Schengen Zone?
Yes 56%  56%  [ 18 ]
No 44%  44%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 32
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 Post subject: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:36 pm 
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This has come up as a topic of discussion with some of my colleagues over the last couple of weeks and I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the assembled parish brains trust.

If the outcome of the UK/EU divorce is a “no migration, no trade” standoff, the so called Hard Brexit, with an associated loss of the Ireland/UK Common Travel Area resulting in passport controls being introduced between the two states (including at the land border), should Ireland then sign up to the Schengen Area?

Accepted that there’s some way to go on this and that, in the event of the UK tightening control of its borders other options for facilitating and policing travel between the two parts of this island and our near neighbour exist, on this specific question, what are the thoughts and opinions of the members?

Blue Horseshoe

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Blue Horseshoe wrote:
This has come up as a topic of discussion with some of my colleagues over the last couple of weeks and I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the assembled parish brains trust.

If the outcome of the UK/EU divorce is a “no migration, no trade” standoff, the so called Hard Brexit, with an associated loss of the Ireland/UK Common Travel Area resulting in passport controls being introduced between the two states (including at the land border), should Ireland then sign up to the Schengen Area?

Accepted that there’s some way to go on this and that, in the event of the UK tightening control of its borders other options for facilitating and policing travel between the two parts of this island and our near neighbour exist, on this specific question, what are the thoughts and opinions of the members?

Blue Horseshoe


Absolutely not. No passport to travel to the EU? Id much prefer proper checks on those entering the country and proper sharing of info with other eu states.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:21 pm 
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But werpen as it stands EU citizens use their national ID card to enter Ireland so the notion of retaining a passport isn't an issue there.

Our new passport cards are our compromise and accepted across the EU/EEA without a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:50 pm 
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It's not really relevant.

You could maintain the CTA with Britain outside the EU.

All EU citizens would have to show a passport to enter Ireland or UK. If they wanted to work in Ireland they could do so without any d1cking about with visas and the like. In the UK they would have to navigate some kind of work permit system.

The UK is not going to destroy its own tourist industry by insisting that EU citizens cannot come and go as they please.

Yes, you would have some leakage of EU citizens via Ireland into the cash economy in the UK, but this is an unintended consequence they will be quite happy with. A lot of seasonal agricultural work, housekeeping services, construction, etc in the UK would simply not exist without it.

It was like Prohibition in the USA. Everyone was kept happy. The abstinence movement had its law and the drinkers could still buy booze.


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:01 pm 
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To be honest im more concerned about the UK being a backdoor to the EU. We don't know what shady arrangements the UK will make.

The CTA is nonbinding and can be moved back to Irish sea like during the war. With collaboration with the psni we could keep the island restrictions free. The unionists won't care as long as they retain their link with the UK, although Scotland breaking that union might leave us with a lot culturally challenged irelanders.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:02 pm 
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catbear wrote:
To be honest im more concerned about the UK being a backdoor to the EU. We don't know what shady arrangements the UK will make.

The CTA is nonbinding and can be moved back to Irish sea like during the war. With collaboration with the psni we could keep the island restrictions free. The unionists won't care as long as they retain their link with the UK, although Scotland breaking that union might leave us with a lot culturally challenged irelanders.

I think the prospect of fans from Belfast on their way to an Old Firm game being checked for passports would test that hypothesis a little.............


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Ids are checked at the ports as is.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:22 pm 
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I think the CTA with the UK is far more important than the Schengen area to Ireland. We recognised that when Schengen was set up and we sensibly opted out because the UK did.

I think we should do whatever it takes to keep the CTA after Brexit, border posts going up on the NI border would be a disaster. My guess is that there will be some sympathy for our position in Europe, any ire that they might have for the dilemma that's been created is surely directed at the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:36 am 
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Staying out of something because the UK did too isn't exactly an argument, should we leave too because the UK is going?

It has to be remembered that there's also schengen business visas and we'd then be the only EU economy requiring a different visa for global visitors.

Also we're not going to stop EU citizens from crossing the border so really the impetus is on the UK to accommodate us as a part of the EU which they have to bargain from a weak position.

The compromise is a mixture of both schengen and CTA. We can still check all ids at our ports as we do already.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
It was like Prohibition in the USA. Everyone was kept happy.


The criminals were the happiest of the lot, This Brexit will be lead to golden age for smugglers along the border taking advantage of pricing gradients of everything and anything.


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
catbear wrote:
To be honest im more concerned about the UK being a backdoor to the EU. We don't know what shady arrangements the UK will make.

The CTA is nonbinding and can be moved back to Irish sea like during the war. With collaboration with the psni we could keep the island restrictions free. The unionists won't care as long as they retain their link with the UK, although Scotland breaking that union might leave us with a lot culturally challenged irelanders.

I think the prospect of fans from Belfast on their way to an Old Firm game being checked for passports would test that hypothesis a little.............
They got over it in every other part of the empire.


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:51 am 
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I don't see Ireland joining Schengen.

The whole thing has made a United Ireland inevitable IMO.....either that or Ireland having much closer ties to the UK (if it still exists), which, unless there was to be a unprecedented shift in opinion over the next few years, is a non runner in political terms.

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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:05 am 
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CTA area in doubt if this type of 5hite continues

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-an ... -1.2840596
Quote:
Agencies in the UK are charging up to £7,000 to help people get their non-EU spouses into the UK using visas issued by Ireland.
The activities of the agencies come against a backdrop of an unprecedented surge in visa applications for UK citizens’ spouses who come from Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan. The UK is making it more difficult for such people to get visas.
One agency mentioned in a High Court ruling last week, Immigration Assistance Services (IAS), with an address in Rochdale, England, says it can guarantee to get spouses a visa using Ireland. It says that if there is any delay in Ireland issuing the visa, the service will go to the Irish High Court and get a judge to order the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) to accelerate the process. “We can legally compel the INIS to issue your decision directly.”
Last week Ms Justice Mary Faherty gave the Department of Justice and Equality six weeks to make a decision in relation to a visa for a Pakistani wife of a UK national. The couple complained about the length of time it was taking the INIS to process the woman’s application. She had previously been denied a visa by the UK authorities.
The couple used IAS to file for the Irish visa for the woman who said she was a qualifying spouse under EU law for an EU national who was travelling to Ireland to work. The application was made in July 2015. The couple intend to ultimately live in the UK.
Agencies in the UK are charging for helping people use EU laws governing the rights of EU nationals who travel within the European Union to bring their non-EU wives with them. They say that after getting a visa from Ireland, the couple can, after a three month and one day stay in Ireland, move to the UK.
“We obtain a visa for your spouse in Ireland,” the IAS website says. “Once your spouse has their visa (usually within a month), we arrange employment and help you find accommodation, so everything is ready when you arrive in Ireland together. You and your spouse can enjoy your holiday in Ireland and return to the UK together legally.”
In its submissions to the High Court in the case last week, the department said it was concerned Ireland would act as a “magnet” for people not otherwise lawfully entitled to get into the UK, “a situation which may put the common travel area in jeopardy”.
It said there was an “unprecedented” upsurge in EU treaty rights applications, particularly involving family members of UK citizens coming from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.


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 Post subject: Re: [Poll] Hard Brexit, Ireland and Schengen
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:29 am 
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When you consider how invisible the Irish border was in the Brexit debate I can imagine the CTA just being overlooked. The brexiteers belligerent island attitude will push the CTA into the irish sea.

There will be no material difference to those who identify as British in northern Ireland.

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