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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Epicurus wrote:
Good for the GDP don't ya know


My understanding is that rents are a transfer from one member of society to another i.e. no contribution to GDP


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Luan wrote:
Epicurus wrote:
Good for the GDP don't ya know


My understanding is that rents are a transfer of wealth from one member of society to another i.e. no contribution to GDP
Fixed that for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Luan wrote:
Epicurus wrote:
Good for the GDP don't ya know


My understanding is that rents are a transfer from one member of society to another i.e. no contribution to GDP


Rent is a payment for a service on market terms so is counted in GDP.

Transfers from you to the government (taxes) and from the government back (welfare payments) are not counted.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:08 am 
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Yep, the CSO note on their GDP methodology: http://www.cso.ie/en/interactivezone/statisticsexplained/nationalaccounts/howaregdpandgnpmeasured/

Quote:
There are three ways of measuring GDP, each of which theoretically should give the same answer, i.e.
1) the output method (all value added by each producer),
2) the income method (all income generated) and
3) the expenditure method (all spending on final demand).

In Ireland, the income and expenditure approaches are used. An output estimate is available on an experimental basis on the CSO website. Under the income approach, we measure the different elements of income such as
• profits of companies and of the self-employed
• remuneration of employees (wages, salaries and employers’ contributions to social insurance and pension funds including imputed contributions in respect of public service employees)
• rent of dwellings (imputed in the case of owner-occupied).


What I find interesting is the effect GDP stories have on the public's phyche. Employees hear on RTE at night that GDP is growing and assume this must mean they are entitled to/going to get a share. Not so fast my friend.
They they then get disgruntled by a meagre or small pay rise when the reality comes. What people don't appreciate is that rents and profits can drive GDP up, but wages may be and in many cases are static. Taken to an extreme the cabal who have driven up rents in Ireland in the last 5 years through population growth may justify increased government expenditure and promote government debt levels to keep the 'party' going, based on these elevated bubble dependent GDP figures. Just as they did those days of antiquity 2002-2008.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:04 am 
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'Forever renters' in 40s and 50s risk penury in retirement - Mark O'Regan -> https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/f ... 94012.html

Quote:
A 'lost generation' of future pensioners risks penury in old age as the prospect of owning their own home slips away.
Soaring property prices means 'forever renters' - currently in their 40s and 50s - are destined to spend their retirement years in rental accommodation.
This may be unsuitable for their needs - and overpriced.
Experts describe renting in retirement as a 'time bomb' which will stretch the finances of many older people.
<snip>
According to Central Statistics Office figures, the number of renters aged between 40 and 44 jumped from 28,037 to 35,909, between 2011 and 2016.
Those caught in the rental trap in the 45-49 age bracket increased from 19,328 to 23,998.
The number of renters aged 50-54 rose from 13,565 to 16,043. And those in 55-59 grouping still renting increased from 8,699 to 10,934.
Latest data also reveals home ownership in Ireland is at its lowest level since 1971.

there is more



That will be the least of their worries, how many have a pension?


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:23 am 
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The state pension in Ireland is a relatively generous bulwark against poverty. Most pensioner households are not in the bottom 20% of the income distribution.

Allied to this, almost everyone hitting pension age in Ireland now is an owner-occupier without a mortgage, or, in social housing with tenure for life.

This is changing.

Private renting in old age - the norm in many countries - is new in Ireland and will put quite a few pensioners into poverty in future.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:23 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
This is changing.

Private renting in old age - the norm in many countries - is new in Ireland and will put quite a few pensioners into poverty in future.


The challenge with renting when you are retired is that you need to be mobile and take advantage of low cost locations that do exist, but they may be miles from any services that you need when you are older (like doctors). I've met several pensioners from the UK who have rented here for a number of years, and it generally goes OK for them until a partner dies or they get sick then they tend to move back to the UK and live with their adult children.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:34 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
The state pension in Ireland is a relatively generous bulwark against poverty. Most pensioner households are not in the bottom 20% of the income distribution.

Allied to this, almost everyone hitting pension age in Ireland now is an owner-occupier without a mortgage, or, in social housing with tenure for life.

This is changing.

Private renting in old age - the norm in many countries - is new in Ireland and will put quite a few pensioners into poverty in future.

Well the State will pick up the tab for their housing one way or another. However, they'll have less choice over their own housing, both in terms of size and location.

This will tend to increase the utilisation of housing (i.e people per bedroom) by diminishing the tendency of people to inhabit oversized accommodation, although it'll happen so slowly that nobody will really notice.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:20 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
The state pension in Ireland is a relatively generous bulwark against poverty.


Given the current demographics the state pension is unlikely to be as generous in a few decades time.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
The state pension in Ireland is a relatively generous bulwark against poverty. Most pensioner households are not in the bottom 20% of the income distribution.

Allied to this, almost everyone hitting pension age in Ireland now is an owner-occupier without a mortgage, or, in social housing with tenure for life.

This is changing.

Private renting in old age - the norm in many countries - is new in Ireland and will put quite a few pensioners into poverty in future.



I think quite a few pensioners who own their own homes live close to poverty. Witness the comments about refurb cost's on other threads. Old damp single glazed etc. At least there are meant to be standards for rental properties no such benefits to an old retired house owner.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:22 am 
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As the CSO measures it, most pensioner households are in at least the 3rd decile of the income distribution and are owner-occupiers.

They are free to spend their money as they see fit (or not at all) but it does allow them to be comfortably housed.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:11 pm 
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3000/month for a relatively ordinary deatched 4-bed in Clontarf, *unfurnished*, with not much of a back garden.
https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-r ... n-1798543/

So glad we recently bought and finally got out of the rental game.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Things are going to get really bad for many older renters if this trend continues as they get priced out, then kicked out to rent to younger higher rent payers.

Quote:
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/12 ... elessness/
A charity supporting older people has described the plight of elderly renters who cannot afford rising rents as a ticking time-bomb and the next crisis in homelessness.

Alone predicts the numbers of elderly people being pushed in to homelessness will surge as Ireland's population ages.

The charity's CEO, Sean Moynihan, has said the trend is already happening on the run-up to Christmas with new older homeless people knocking on the charity's door every day.

The problem of elderly being homeless is compounded as Ireland’s population ages with the numbers of those aged over 60 on the social housing waiting list growing nationally by 11.4% each year between 2013 and 2016 from 4,765 to 6,594 respectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Apple warns Taoiseach on the planning & housing problems -SBPost
Image

Bit suspect that a company that owes us €13bn would consider investing €1bn here.
Does have a valid point though


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:10 pm 
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temene wrote:
Apple warns Taoiseach on the planning & housing problems -SBPost
Image

Bit suspect that a company that owes us €13bn would consider investing €1bn here.
Does have a valid point though


How many houses, water pipes, roads and buses or trains could you get for €13B?

Just wondering... :x

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Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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