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 Post subject: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Feb 17, 2014
Posts: 326
I know this is not a very original point to make, but the rental costs in Dublin are unreal.

My landlord has recently indicated that in a few months he I is to raise my (already huge) rent ssignificantly. In advance of this I browsed what's available on the northside for my current rent. While I did not expect any bargains, I was genuinely surprised at the going rate for grim, grim places. Awful shitholes asking for serious money and little choice. It would almost make one panic buy...


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:14 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3073
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Harass your local TD on the issue.
Nothing will come of it though


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:24 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 1861
The more the government taxes residential landlords the higher rents become.

USC
PRSI
LPT (still not an allowable expense)
Etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Feb 1, 2007
Posts: 2207
Luan wrote:
The more the government taxes residential landlords the higher rents become.

USC
PRSI
LPT (still not an allowable expense)
Etc.


The government seem to facilitate the non payment of mortgages if the "investor" chooses

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Posts: 2561
jake76 wrote:
The government seem to facilitate the non payment of mortgages if the "investor" chooses


And they also seem happy that empty stock remains empty

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Borrowers seeking mortgages have had to resort to saving deposits, forcing many to sit by and watch house prices tumble without being able to do anything about it. Sunday Independent - June 1 2008

I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Oct 7, 2014
Posts: 995
billcall55 wrote:
I know this is not a very original point to make, but the rental costs in Dublin are unreal.

My landlord has recently indicated that in a few months he I is to raise my (already huge) rent ssignificantly. In advance of this I browsed what's available on the northside for my current rent. While I did not expect any bargains, I was genuinely surprised at the going rate for grim, grim places. Awful shitholes asking for serious money and little choice. It would almost make one panic buy...


My landlord has indicated that he is thinking of selling, so I've been keeping an eye on options around here (south county dublin) for the past while. Grim stuff alright. I don't envy anyone currently in the position of needing to find a home at short notice, and I very much don't look forward to imminently finding myself in the same position.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 22510
It's no fun and certainly not easy renting in Ireland if you are trying to attain adequate, stable and ordinary shelter to a level that might be fitting of a simple life.

So you have to be more flexible and adaptive keeping options open to strategise on a needs be / needs must basis and follow through on what opportunities present themselves. I do understand it can not be that for everyone due the physical, economic and geogprahical limits (must attributable to corruption and incompetence) but to acquire that mental framework helps to deal with the emotional and economic illiteracy as it tries to climb it's way up to the light by clawing it's eyes out.

So I refrained form posting this last year but I guess I'll throw in my own personal experience for the fact things are still majorly malfunctional.

I find myself back to house sharing in my mid-late 30's. Just like I was when I started this forum with a few changes and upgrades. Don't get me wrong I enjoy it and have done it for many years previous.

On a positive I've managed to reduce my rent by 40% but you incur other costs (unconscionable previously but now a matter of needs must) for so many other reasons certain expectations you bin. There are things you get from sharing that sometimes outweigh what you might have lost. Overall I'm actually sum happier in total. We're all one tribe in the end.

For many though it would probably represent at an anecdotal measure of how nuts it's out there and a line too far thus I offer in that vein but I may simpler be too outlier to be of much use. So I'll anecdote away.

I do my best not to entertain the nuts and their nut burger plans and it has had a monetary cost probably incalculable at this point. Beyond that is physically leaving. That's something I simply don't want to do right now. I'm actually very much happier. Life is suppose to be magic in my book and you know living by some unauthoured and arbitrary economic measure never made sense to Open Window, i.e. I'm only offering insight I'm not preaching my pamphelt.

Everyone has to live their life and that's all I'm trying to do as are the majority of people. Trying to live a life by what you expect life should be is often much harder if not impossible to achieve because those expectation are preyed on and if they majority are fixated by an impossible idea there is very little appetite to snap out of the spell as many know all to well here. It is not until they individually decided to wake up to their life can we expect to see the idea vapourise.

Path of least resistance and all that is my motto.

So the same rental and overall property meltdown that moved me to establish the forum as a mental refuge and place to exchange insight over the madness at hand, has, not gone away and is perceptibly worse because a subset of the managerial class who run the place refuse to allow others live their lives and learn their life lessons and many did vote for it yes, before this they mostly managed the denial now they actively manage the bubble. Though there is never a wrong time to start learning / doing the right thing it's testing to see car crash after car crash. However you can distance by slotting into your life and not someone else's.

Clearly the insitutional derived denialisim has a temporal material price. You do your best to mitigate it's clawing and pawing at your doorstep.

The ranks of people who are in more precarious living arrangements than they ever imagined they would be have certainly grown within our own families and circles of friends.

I've starting to imagining living with wheels under my bed some days. For me that's a design challenge not a crusty encampment. It's not full circle we are but spiralling past the graveyard.

From observations my guess is an huge influx of migrants arriving on a rotational basis as the Irish Gov allow a new originating jurisdiction easy entry is keeping accommodation full.

Rent Allowance functions as a stealth market control that maintains an unnatural floor on rents.

NAMA has taken supply and masked or removed it for far too long.

The generous if not world first forbearance of mortgage and investment mortgage arrears on a multi annual basis is simply being passed on to the existing fish in the proverbial bonsai barrel.

It's actually dire if you stop to let it all in or out, but quietly dire it is so. People are jaded or simply not here anymore. Energy is put too survival. Time for dreaming (the thing that gets us out of dodge) is murdered by ignorance and arrogance to order.

Yet I've never been happier and felt the gifts of life's infinite potential can rain down and soak the dry land of despair into a place we might only dream of. If you asked me why. I'd say what I wrote already. I'm doing my best to live my life in the greater story with the rest of your crazy nutburgers. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 22510
Luan wrote:
The more the government taxes residential landlords the higher rents become.

USC
PRSI
LPT (still not an allowable expense)
Etc.


That's a very linear logic which has a breaking point to my mind.

It's not as if the "landlords" are only following orders in this instance unless they Bank with the Bank Of UnRisk.

What they might tax in tax they give back in both in tax allowances for expense incurred (never available to the tenant) and Rent Allowance national market subsidy scheme.

Yet that's not good enough. Even after some of the supply has been constricted by poor historical planning (see: disaster), a lack of recent and real future construction and with the warehousing of some supply by social outreach programs such as NAMA still multiple speculator BTLer's have decided to defraud the Revenue of taxable income and enjoy the high as they can go rents in the meantime. That points to something else wrong somewhere else. If many are removing their participation from the collective game and into the black market game bypassing all state oversight (which still has to be paid for) by this means then something else is definitely a problem. I don't think it can be margin on rents. I don't think it can be demand. I don't think it's supply either. I don't think it can be Tax/unTax. I don't think it can be intervention after intervention.

So what really is the problem?

Wht's that you say Mr Anderson.... speak louder!

"DEBT!"

There you go. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:22 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Feb 6, 2007
Posts: 4199
temene wrote:
Harass your local TD on the issue.
Nothing will come of it though

Oh I don't know. A reminder that the scandalous increases in the cost of living is why you voted against the government in the local elections and a suggestion that they have a word with the "minister for property price and rent rises" about it tends to sting enough to excite action.

What most disappoints me about the current government is that they just don't see that their stitching up of young, non-property owning voters is a major contributor to their present troubles.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:37 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Posts: 542
billcall55 wrote:
I know this is not a very original point to make, but the rental costs in Dublin are unreal.

My landlord has recently indicated that in a few months he I is to raise my (already huge) rent ssignificantly. In advance of this I browsed what's available on the northside for my current rent. While I did not expect any bargains, I was genuinely surprised at the going rate for grim, grim places. Awful shitholes asking for serious money and little choice. It would almost make one panic buy...


I was wondering how much of a % increase your landlord is suggesting? And what are they asking for these grim places you've seen advertised? BTW: I am not going to use this info to argue with you. Rents are mental in Dublin.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 1541
It is mental. But, so are house prices relative to net incomes.

I just signed a lease on a house that would have fetched 460-560K in the last 4/5 months. If I bought it at the lower end of the scale with 20% down, my mortgage repayments would still be at least €2/300pm more expensive than my rent and, my deposit down a big black (bank) hole.

I'll keep renting.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 22510
hiphop wrote:
billcall55 wrote:
I know this is not a very original point to make, but the rental costs in Dublin are unreal.

My landlord has recently indicated that in a few months he I is to raise my (already huge) rent ssignificantly. In advance of this I browsed what's available on the northside for my current rent. While I did not expect any bargains, I was genuinely surprised at the going rate for grim, grim places. Awful shitholes asking for serious money and little choice. It would almost make one panic buy...


I was wondering how much of a % increase your landlord is suggesting? And what are they asking for these grim places you've seen advertised? BTW: I am not going to use this info to argue with you. Rents are mental in Dublin.


... and supply is mentler!

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Back Home with Mammy

Joined: May 2, 2009
Posts: 51
Open Window wrote:
From observations my guess is an huge influx of migrants arriving on a rotational basis as the Irish Gov allow a new originating jurisdiction easy entry is keeping accommodation full.


Spot on. Property price conversation in the media all seems predicated on the assumption of a shortage of supply (i.e. build moar!). I don't hear anyone questioning the demand side of the issue. If supply isn't coming on - static - then what's driving the demand? Government don't want us to think about that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:49 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: The dodgy bit of Dublin 8
harkerj wrote:
Open Window wrote:
From observations my guess is an huge influx of migrants arriving on a rotational basis as the Irish Gov allow a new originating jurisdiction easy entry is keeping accommodation full.


I don't hear anyone questioning the demand side of the issue .... Government don't want us to think about that one.


Evidence? What 'new originating jurisdiction'? You are aware that we have a common travel area with Britain and that decisions around changing existing visa policies (i.e. lifting visa requirements on countries which currently have them and/or putting visa requirements on countries which have heretofore had visa free access to Ireland) are made pretty much in step with the UK, which is undergoing a deeply anti-immigrant phase? The only changes I am aware of in recent times are on the tightening side (i.e. imposing visa requirement on Venezuela in mid 2014, no change is visa requirements for Colombia and Peru, despite Schengen countries implementing a visa waiver for short term travel imminently)

Which new jurisdiction has the government allowed 'easy entry' to in the last 3 years?


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 11442
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
The housing crisis in Dublin is actually caused by an unemployment problem everywhere else in the country. Create more jobs around the country and less migrants will move there looking for work.

It's worth remembering that Dublin boomed during the Great Famine. The very same process is at play now. Interesting link.


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