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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:54 am 
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ChickenParmentier wrote:
You may not like what this says or implies. You may not want it to be true. You may be happy to sneer and gloat at the person’s experiences, lack of knowledge and misfortune. You may be happy to comment on his stupidity in paying so much for a residential rental property, so evident in hindsight.

But he was doing why lot of other people who do not receive pensions and who were trying to responsibly plan for their futures were doing. He followed advice and received wisdom.

I was careful in my comment to make allowance for the mania that had overtaken the country. I was cutting him a lot of slack, probably more than he deserved since he was one of the guys creating the received wisdom. I only commented on the thing that needed no special knowledge and certainly no hindsight -- that the rental yield on the property was abysmal from day one. It could never have made sense on that basis. He had to be relying on massive capital gains, above the rate of inflation. So I presume he believed his tiny house would sell in the future for 20, 30, 40 times the average income (the multiple was already at 15)?

Schmucks with zero property or finance knowledge (among whom I count myself) could have told you in 2006 that this wouldn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:21 am 
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ChickenParmentier wrote:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-is-a-rental-crisis-but-don-t-blame-the-landlords-1.2906313
Quote:
In 2006, I purchased a small house as an investment for €610,000, paying €45,750 in stamp duty.
Having been vacant for seven years, it needed significant work – costing €110,000. And so my landlord days began.
Since then, I have had a number of tenants. I have been lucky – they have all paid their rent on time and generally looked after the house. Today, though, it is still worth less than I paid for it.

...


You may not like what this says or implies. You may not want it to be true. You may be happy to sneer and gloat at the person’s experiences, lack of knowledge and misfortune. You may be happy to comment on his stupidity in paying so much for a residential rental property, so evident in hindsight.

But he was doing why lot of other people who do not receive pensions and who were trying to responsibly plan for their futures were doing. He followed advice and received wisdom.

I have made the point elsewhere about the effective subsidies large numbers of private landlord made to their tenants from the years 2008-2014 and this was rejected.

But none of the comments on this have addressed the core issue is that large numbers of the person classified as accidental or amateur landlords are leaving the market, reducing the pool of available properties. The replacement rate is not matching the rate at which the numbers are leaving.

Demographic pressures mean there is more demand for a smaller number of residential rental properties.

That is not changing and no amount of smugness, sneering, gloating, after-the-event smartarsedness or wishful thinking will make it change.

The only action that will make it change is building more residential property to relieve supply-wide pressures and satisfy demand.

Building more residential property will have many primary, secondary and tertiary benefits.


Nothing that is for the greater good will benefit that person, building more will hinder their "investment".
Fact of the matter is that the market was out of balance during the bubble and investors were an inflated portion of buyers. It follows that these investors should be squeezed out of the market to bring it back into balance. This is what is happening this investor.

We certainly do not want a situation where bubble level prices equal a good rental yield (accounting for inflation). This would mean the country is more screwed up than in 2006.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Jan 28, 2013
Posts: 1334
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
ChickenParmentier wrote:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/there-is-a-rental-crisis-but-don-t-blame-the-landlords-1.2906313
Quote:
In 2006, I purchased a small house as an investment for €610,000, paying €45,750 in stamp duty.
Having been vacant for seven years, it needed significant work – costing €110,000. And so my landlord days began.
Since then, I have had a number of tenants. I have been lucky – they have all paid their rent on time and generally looked after the house. Today, though, it is still worth less than I paid for it.

...


You may not like what this says or implies. You may not want it to be true. You may be happy to sneer and gloat at the person’s experiences, lack of knowledge and misfortune. You may be happy to comment on his stupidity in paying so much for a residential rental property, so evident in hindsight.

But he was doing why lot of other people who do not receive pensions and who were trying to responsibly plan for their futures were doing. He followed advice and received wisdom.

I have made the point elsewhere about the effective subsidies large numbers of private landlord made to their tenants from the years 2008-2014 and this was rejected.

But none of the comments on this have addressed the core issue is that large numbers of the person classified as accidental or amateur landlords are leaving the market, reducing the pool of available properties. The replacement rate is not matching the rate at which the numbers are leaving.

Demographic pressures mean there is more demand for a smaller number of residential rental properties.

That is not changing and no amount of smugness, sneering, gloating, after-the-event smartarsedness or wishful thinking will make it change.

The only action that will make it change is building more residential property to relieve supply-wide pressures and satisfy demand.

Building more residential property will have many primary, secondary and tertiary benefits.


Nothing that is for the greater good will benefit that person, building more will hinder their "investment".
Fact of the matter is that the market was out of balance during the bubble and investors were an inflated portion of buyers. It follows that these investors should be squeezed out of the market to bring it back into balance. This is what is happening this investor.

We certainly do not want a situation where bubble level prices equal a good rental yield (accounting for inflation). This would mean the country is more screwed up than in 2006.


Yeah but that's exactly what they want. Should have been debt write downs, foreclosures and closed banks. Instead they created a Frankenstein economy to serve the interests of extremely wealthy interest groups. Change will come soon, and it's not going to be pretty, people are fed up with the bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 810
Curious, promoting itself as the Tripadvisor for renters:

dwelldown.com


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Location: To the right of the decimal place
Some US data for comparison, courtesy of The Information:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Rents in USA are very high again.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-renta ... 16-11?IR=T
Image

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Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Posts: 2949
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
In answer to my earlier question
40% of bosses say shortage of rental accommodation impacts on ability to hire staff
The survey - to which 2,500 workers and 500 businesses responded - was carried out by recruitment firm Abrivia in conjunction with the business school at TCD.
47% of workers living outside Dublin said they would need a salary increase of 20%+ to move to Dublin for work.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Oct 29, 2007
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Location: Multiverse
I've had 3 rental contracts fall through on me this week (1 even today).
Everything ready, but the prospective tenants cancelling hours before signing.
Such behaviour normally signifies a natural topping of rents.


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:36 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
I've had 3 rental contracts fall through on me this week (1 even today).
Everything ready, but the prospective tenants cancelling hours before signing.
Such behaviour normally signifies a natural topping of rents.

You have been spoilt - welcome to a dose of normal tenant behaviour :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5351
Location: SthDub
Undercover probe exposes property firm overcrowding houses with up to 70 people - 'House could have burned to the ground'
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ne ... 91528.html
Quote:
A PROPERTY management company in Dublin is renting a number of houses across the capital to up to 70 people at a time, with up to 15 people in some rooms, Independent.ie can reveal.
The owner of two properties implicated said he leases the houses to the company and allows them "to do what they like with them", insisting "there’s no breach of regulations"...
..“When I moved in, there was around 40 people living there, mostly South American and Eastern European. When I left, there was around 70 after they put more bunk beds in the basement. There are extension leads all over the house because there are so many people.
“I was told that the house was cleaned 3-4 times per week and that bin bags and toilet roll would be provided at all times, which of course wasn’t the case....
...The Dundrum house had a double-room available for €800 a month and two rooms with four single beds in them, with each bed coming at a price of €350 per month, meaning the landlord would be collecting €3,600 in rent.
In the Cabinteely house, with up to 70 tenants paying €200 each month, the company would potentially be collecting circa €14,000 in rent - or €168,000 per year.
Another property managed by the company, located in the Rathmines area, has between 20 and 40 people living there - all females.
The owner of the property denied any knowledge of this and advised us to take the matter up with the management company.
One of the tenants said because the cost of renting in the city centre is so high, they are "left with no option" but to live in such conditions.
There are also houses located on the Howth Road which are rented under similar circumstances.
The properties located in Cabinteely and Rathmines are not registered with the Residential Tenancies Board.
It is not known exactly how many houses the company is managing across Dublin.

Capitalism meets Globalism meets Ireland.

I wonder how many people are recorded in the Census for each house


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:33 pm 
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cram everyone into the cities. that's what any house buying person is up against. 5 to a bedroom rentals.

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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Posts: 1380
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This is what is happening when you manipulate with the property market on a big scale plus you allow mass immigration of unskilled workers.

_________________
Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 2949
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Rents have reached new highs nationwide. :evil:
http://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2 ... nfographic


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Jul 31, 2011
Posts: 1380
Location: 0-71
why rent when you can buy cheaper?


..oh ye no money to buy.

_________________
Why it was so windy there?... I am out.

For future reference, a 'soft landing' theorem:
06/2007: Central Bank predicts soft landing for housing
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 96858.html
It's all grand


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 Post subject: Re: Rental Costs - Unreal!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 11423
Location: Multiverse
Luan wrote:
mr_anderson wrote:
I've had 3 rental contracts fall through on me this week (1 even today).
Everything ready, but the prospective tenants cancelling hours before signing.
Such behaviour normally signifies a natural topping of rents.

You have been spoilt - welcome to a dose of normal tenant behaviour :)



Undoubtedly.
I'd say rents are definitely easing now.
Had to reduce the asking price on a few of my D2 properties.
The corporate clamour of last year is no longer visible.
Maybe it's a January/February thing.

Only time will tell.


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