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How did you vote in the Referendum today?
Yes - Marriage 42%  42%  [ 62 ]
No - Marriage 9%  9%  [ 14 ]
Yes - Presidential 28%  28%  [ 42 ]
No - Presidential 20%  20%  [ 30 ]
Total votes : 148
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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:02 pm 
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I think that the no side in general have a hard time accepting just how 'one-sided' (i.e. there is only one right answer) and important a civil rights issue this is for large swathes of the population. It's not only 'media luvvies' who have friends and family-members directly and personally affected by this. Western culture has progressed fairly rapidly in recent times in its attitudes toward people who are homosexual. It is no longer denied and swept under the carpet as it once was and it is no longer socially acceptable to express the view publicly that to be homosexual implies some sort of moral failing or depravity. Even the prominent no campaigners will not admit to believing this.

For thousands of years women were also treated as second-class citizens. There are some who might privately still wish this were the case but I'm glad to live in a society where this view is recognised as abhorrent. In fact marriage, as we now understand it, being based on mutual consent and romantic love, is a fairly modern construct. I see absolutely no logical reason why same-sex couples should be barred from it. I do see very compelling reasons why they should not. I think a future where sexuality expressed between consenting adults is private and unremarkable is a bright prospect.

I genuinely do not understand the lack of empathy and bitterness towards our gay brothers and sisters, no more than I understand any bully trying to keep other people down just because of who they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:04 pm 
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mortgageboy wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Open Window wrote:
Could there be a correlation between the amount of media time one question got over the other. I'd say there is a very strong possibility. Does this point to the power of media when it mobilising before our very eyes to command our attention. Sure. Was it biased? No idea.


The way the Media rounded as one on this was quiet staggering...I thought there was rules on the radio for example around splitting air time equally between both sides and the Presenters showing no bias at all. But that has been out the window since day 1. Now I know how people felt living in the old USSR :lol:
Perhaps this could lead to a legal challenge from the No side in the near future?

I saw an ad in the Sth Dublin Echo from Brid Smith Councillor for PbP..."Beat the Bigots, Vote Yes'.
A stand on Henry St today for the Yes side also had the same message.
Nothing as illiberal as a Liberal....if you don't agree with me, your a bigot and a homophobe (this last one being a particular favourite of a few of the celebs who were all too keen to get in the news on this referendum).

Never has there being so much media space and noise given to such a small minority in this country before.
Is circa 7% of the population Gay? Half of them are too young or too old to be married. Another high % are playing the field or have no interest in getting married.
So we're left with maybe 1% of the population who may actually take this up each year.....and for that we've had around 3 months of constant Media hype, Una Mullally columns etc etc.

Oh if only so much time was devoted to the Housing question in this country or the cost of childcare, what a great place it would be too live in. But those subjects don't seem to impact on the luvvies in the Media/artistic world much :roll:


Your percentages are a bit off. Half of the heterosexual population is too young or too old to get married too, and plenty more are 'playing the field or have no interest in getting married'. So, in due course, the percentage of same sex marriages is likely to be reflective of the total number of lesbian/gay people in the country.

Evidence from elsewhere would suggest that gays are less interested in marriage than the heterosexual population...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/style ... .html?_r=0
“It’s a very, very archaic model,” said Sean Fader, 34, an artist in New York who is single and asked to be identified as queer. “It’s this oppressive Christian model that says ‘Pick a person that’s going to be everything to you, they have to be perfect, then get a house, and have kids, and then you’ll be happy and whole.' ” Some of the opposition among gay men and lesbians is rooted in a feminist critique of marriage, which sees it not as a freedom to be gained but as an institution that has historically oppressed women.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:11 pm 
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So what? I daresay you could do a vox-pop of straight people on the street and you'd find a decent number who don't believe in marriage (and this is probably increasing, in all likelihood because they are rejecting the conservative version of marriage which says you must have the picket fence and 2.4 kids etc.). But evidently there are many more gay people who want the opportunity to marry. I personally know a few couples who intend to marry if this passes. And anyway, whether you marry or not, that's not the point. The point is that you are forbidden to marry (today anyway) just because you are gay. A little empathy and placing yourself in someone else's shoes usually goes a long way to understanding why people campaign for any civil rights. I saw an internet commenter say (sarcastically) 'Sure what was the problem, didn't Rosa Parks have a seat on that bus?'. I think that demonstrates the point very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Rimbaud wrote:
There's is definitely a class of people who would probably have voted to give the gay community more rights than the rest of us just to show everyone how right on and liberal the really are. :)
I have never met any of those people so I find it hard to believe they actually exist. On the other hand, I have met plenty of people who regard homosexuality as immoral, unnatural, sinful and disgusting. Those people aren't imaginary.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:20 pm 
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MyTwoCents wrote:
I think that the no side in general have a hard time accepting just how 'one-sided' (i.e. there is only one right answer) and important a civil rights issue this is for large swathes of the population. It's not only 'media luvvies' who have friends and family-members directly and personally affected by this. Western culture has progressed fairly rapidly in recent times in its attitudes toward people who are homosexual. It is no longer denied and swept under the carpet as it once was and it is no longer socially acceptable to express the view publicly that to be homosexual implies some sort of moral failing or depravity. Even the prominent no campaigners will not admit to believing this.

For thousands of years women were also treated as second-class citizens. There are some who might privately still wish this were the case but I'm glad to live in a society where this view is recognised as abhorrent. In fact marriage, as we now understand it, being based on mutual consent and romantic love, is a fairly modern construct. I see absolutely no logical reason why same-sex couples should be barred from it. I do see very compelling reasons why they should not. I think a future where sexuality expressed between consenting adults is private and unremarkable is a bright prospect.

I genuinely do not understand the lack of empathy and bitterness towards our gay brothers and sisters, no more than I understand any bully trying to keep other people down just because of who they are.



Well said. Not sure why journalists should be forced to write anti-gay rights articles just to fill a quota.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Just googled 'Exit Poll Irish Referendum' and we were 4th on the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:29 pm 
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And this is why people want to live in SCD

From twitter, DLR Councillor luke martin

Quote:
Internal #Exitpoll from Dun Laoghaire shows Marriage Referendum will pass by very significant margin: 79% (MOE +/- 5 points) #MarRef

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:34 pm 
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RTÉ report

22.23 The voting period for the referendums on same-sex marriage and presidential-age has ended with polling stations reporting an "unusually high" electorate turnout.

Will be interesting to see if there really was a silent no majority out there as claimed by some.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:42 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
Will be interesting to see if there really was a silent no majority out there as claimed by some.
I don't think so. The Church needs to have a good think about how it is to become relevant in Ireland when it's so far out of step with the people.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
Will be interesting to see if there really was a silent no majority out there as claimed by some.
I don't think so. The Church needs to have a good think about how it is to become relevant in Ireland when it's so far out of step with the people.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:46 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
Will be interesting to see if there really was a silent no majority out there as claimed by some.
I don't think so. The Church needs to have a good think about how it is to become relevant in Ireland when it's so far out of step with the people.


I was chatting to a friend today from "de country" who is not home at the moment and had a story their mother related.. Seemingly and I presume very recently the local priest during mass asked the congregation to consider or to actually vote yes. Seemingly half the people walked out at that point. Interesting anecdote.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:04 pm 
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temene wrote:
There was definitely a massive heavy bias towards Yes in all the meeja..

All these people 'returning home' to vote, I wonder if they were ordinarily resident here on 1st September last?
Otherwise they are not eligible to be on the electoral roll. But shure this is ireland



The things you learn. All those social media accounts may yet out a few "illegitimate" voters. :nin

Between that and a calculated bias in native media that might be stand up in court, possibly result in a genuinely strong legal challenge to a Yes result?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:22 pm 
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temene wrote:
There was definitely a massive heavy bias towards Yes in all the meeja..

All these people 'returning home' to vote, I wonder if they were ordinarily resident here on 1st September last?
Otherwise they are not eligible to be on the electoral roll. But shure this is ireland


Part of the problem with all of this campaign is the sheer volume of bullshit that has been defecated on the public by both sides. People say a few things on the social media and suddenly it's gospel (No pun intended). I think you will find that the pick up in economic activity here and increase in visitors to the country means every fucking weekend is busy. Ping some crap up on Twatter and hey ho, bandwagon.

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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:03 am 
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Open Window wrote:
temene wrote:
There was definitely a massive heavy bias towards Yes in all the meeja..

All these people 'returning home' to vote, I wonder if they were ordinarily resident here on 1st September last?
Otherwise they are not eligible to be on the electoral roll. But shure this is ireland
The things you learn. All those social media accounts may yet out a few "illegitimate" voters. :nin

Between that and a calculated bias in native media that might be stand up in court, possibly result in a genuinely strong legal challenge to a Yes result?
No. Won't happen. Won't be significant enough numbers per station (and how to determine station?).

Also, why expect balance in the media apart from RTE? They've no obligation to be independent. Look at newspapers in Britain for reference. Independent media take a line based on policy and they have at it. The only pretence at balance should be from RTE, and given the cross-spectrum agreement on the issue at hand, RTE has problems rolling out new talking heads to disagree with the issue whilst there's no shortage of talking heads to rabbit on about the Yes side. But again, that's as it should be. The people who want to extend rights, to make love easier, to free our emotions should be in the majority.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref, EXIT POLL - How did you vote?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:12 am 
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ex-Patrick wrote:

Also, why expect balance in the media apart from RTE? They've no obligation to be independent. Look at newspapers in Britain for reference. Independent media take a line based on policy and they have at it. The only pretence at balance should be from RTE, and given the cross-spectrum agreement on the issue at hand, RTE has problems rolling out new talking heads to disagree with the issue whilst there's no shortage of talking heads to rabbit on about the Yes side. But again, that's as it should be. The people who want to extend rights, to make love easier, to free our emotions should be in the majority.


Well said.


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