Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 278 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:30 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 617
This might be a stupid question, and maybe it belongs in the Section 110 thread, but this amendment to the finance bill which exempts vultures from capital gains tax for five years, does that not incentivise them to realise those gains within five year? i.e. Dump their acquisitions onto the market again?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:11 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Evil_g wrote:
This might be a stupid question, and maybe it belongs in the Section 110 thread, but this amendment to the finance bill which exempts vultures from capital gains tax for five years, does that not incentivise them to realise those gains within five year? i.e. Dump their acquisitions onto the market again?

Bingo

In Committee, Eoghan Murphy stated - with a straight face- that the purpose of the CGT exemption was to incentivise vultures not to dump Irish property. As anybody knows, paying CGT is what incentivises investors to hold a position (reason so few sold in 2007 despite knowing assets were expensive) and earn the income yield (which as Donnelly showed for Cerberus in Project Eagle now runs at 30% per annum).

It was also pointed out that if a Vulture Fund bought in 2012, that 4 of his 5 years had been worked through (i.e. he can sell at the end of 2017 and get it all CGT free). FG have a policy decision against foreign funds paying tax in Ireland. They consider vulture fund investments to be FDI (like Apple), but actually, as we have shown, it is more like Reverse FDI.

Whole thing discussed in more detail here: http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=900844#p900844


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:15 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
We are not Apple, we are not a Vulture Fund ...... we are only following the rules, claims Facebook

Facebook is now rapidly rising in the ranks of world's largest tax avoiders.

Want to know why US Tech firms supported the Democrats so enthusiastically. Because the US Treasury forces the US IRS to allow US Tech get away with the world's largest IP tax avoidance scams. And of course, Ireland is the destination of choice for the most important scam of them all - sheltering from large and high EU tax authorities.

Headline of Facebook (Ireland)
- €7.89bn in Irish Revenue (c 50% of global Facebook revenue)
- €77.5m in Irish Staff costs (yes, million not billion), or less than 1% of Irish Revenues
- €7.7bn in Irish "expenses" (i.e. the IP scam royalty payments to some "offshore" entity)
= €16.53m (yes, million not billion) in Irish taxes.

IRISH INDEPENDENT: 'We do not avoid tax' insists Facebook
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-do-not-avoid-tax-insists-facebook-35289024.html

Enough tax avoidance to even make a Vulture Fund blush.

These guys are not here for the 12.5%, they are here for the c 0%.

Michael Noonan's crusade to made Ireland the powerful tax haven INSIDE the EU tax treaty system.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:21 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Seamus Coffey goes there .....

Image

Coffey's academic upbringing sometimes lands him in conflict with capital markets views of the world (a very good example his initial misunderstanding of the Section 110 SPV scandal is discussed here):

Mars Capital Ireland Case Study: How the Irish Exchequer Will Fund OakTree's Investment in Ireland
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=886799#p886799

However, when it comes to National Accounts, Seamus Coffey's deep expertise is clear. On form, Coffey has a terrific ability to distill down to a single calculation or table. This post is bristling with Coffey examples:

The c €7bn extra Apple charge Margrethe Vestager uncovered without even knowing it
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=889565#p889565

* * * * * *

Sombody who knows the inner workings of the DOF better than I, explained that Seamus Coffey's new appointment by Michael Noonan to a major Irish tax review investigation, was as much to shut Seamus Coffey up (and stop him doing any more Leprechaun Economics type blogs, or the embarrassing GNI/GDP table), as anything else.

However, Seamus can't help but keep re-producing those simple but devastating calculations (something you would never get from the crony ESRI reports, or the legions of other "independent" State investigators.

IRISH TIMES: Tax reform: TDs told Ireland has more to fear from EU than Trump
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/tax-reform-tds-told-ireland-has-more-to-fear-from-eu-than-trump-1.2904023

IRISH TIMES: EU scheme could slash Ireland's tax base in half'
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/eu-scheme-could-slash-irelands-tax-base-in-half-35292501.html

* * * * * *

Make no mistake, Coffey's calculations are not the worst outcome here. As he points out himself (and we did in the first post on this thread), CCCTB would so fundamentally change the nature of the EU tax calculation, that MNCs would be incentivised to allocate even more costs (i.e. jobs) to high tax countries (i.e. not Ireland), to maximise total tax relief.

Ireland has always been a tax haven with a small "t".

However, since the financial crisis, we have dramatically upgraded the scale of tax evasion that MNCs, Vulture Funds and Commercial Property Landlords have been practising in Ireland. We have made fools out of our EU partners (Apple Tax), and ourselves (wiping all Irish taxes for Vulture Funds as they evict Irish families, and Commercial Landlords as the jack up rents).

Michael Noonan (and his junior partner Eoghan Murphy) have created a grotesque recovery.

However, our EU partners (and Donald Trump) are going to make us pay for it.

Perhaps, like the Trokia, they may save us again from our ex school-teacher led economy.


Last edited by observer35 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:27 pm 
Offline
Speculator

Joined: Jan 7, 2008
Posts: 499
observer35 wrote:
However, our EU partners (and Donald Trump) are going to make us pay for it.


Probably starting today .....

http://www.recode.net/2016/12/14/139507 ... bs-economy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:43 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Kenny and Noonan's epic adventure as the EU's most aggressive Tax Haven nears its end

IRISH TIMES: Taoiseach rebuts Oxfam claim that Ireland is a tax haven
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/taoiseach-rebuts-oxfam-claim-that-ireland-is-a-tax-haven-1.2906486

Noonan's most reliable way of dodging difficult questions is to answer an easier one.

We saw this technique used in the Section 110 SPV tax scandal, until the public pressure became too great.
(He is now using his 2nd favourite technique, which is to "clampdown" by creating new "loopholes").

However, doesn't mean the same technique can't be used again for issue of Tax Havens.

Oxfam (and the New York Times, the Wall St Journal, the FT, and Brazil) have branded Ireland a Tax Haven, because Ireland is the leading facilitator of major global corporations avoiding all non US taxes (not 12.5%, but 0.001%) on their global profits.

IRELAND: The Tax Haven that dare not speak its name
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/12/ireland-the-tax-haven-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/

It is not by accident the non-US HQ of most of the world's biggest US Tech firms are in Ireland (Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft etc) and that all of these run approximately 50% of their global revenues through their tiny Irish platform.

For Oxfam (and most of the 1st world), this is the definition of a Tax Haven.

Image

Noonan and Kenny however ignore the 0% tax rates being paid by US MNCs in Ireland, the 0% tax rates being paid by Vulture Funds in Ireland, and the 0% tax rates being paid by Foreign Commercial Landlords in Ireland.

Kenny and Noonan take an "old school" approach (probably given the fact they are both ex school teachers). What they say we are really good at, is clamping down on any drug money, money laundering, etc. being run through in Ireland.

For Noonan and Kenny, this is the definition of a Tax Haven

Image

* * * * * *

We are really good (according to Noonan) at stopping the Tony Montana's hiding their hundreds of millions away.

However for the US MNCs avoiding billions in EU taxes .... maybe, not so much.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:42 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5578
The propaganda war is on. Not much of an independent free press there to be seen.
The language in these articles is very emotive.
This seems to be an attempt to win the minds of the Irish public even at the expense of stirring up negative sentiment toward the E.U. project.
The irony of this is that the no-tax agreements which Ireland seduced these multi-nationals with were only attractive because Ireland is a part of the E.U. project.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1219/839841 ... ax-ruling/
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/econ ... -1.2910851
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 04298.html

Sometimes you just have to step back and call a spade a spade; The Irish Regime in residence is a craven shitty little entity that will happily undermine a greater E.U. project while destroying the tax base/impoverishing its partners in the project with questionable benefit to the Citizens of Ireland.
If the Citizens of Ireland even got something in return for this like low VAT and Income tax rates or the best health service in the E.U. then you could attribute some sort of genuine motive to their shenanigans.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:51 pm 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Posts: 857
Oh Jesus H Christ - Michael Noonan doesn't understand the meaning of the word escrow -

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/02 ... -decision/

Michael - when money is put in escrow it is managed by an independent 3rd party. I know you know feck all about finance or technology but you could at least use a dictionary if you have one in your bookcase.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:26 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5282
Location: SthDub
We need more Oireachtas committees they say, thats where the real work takes place they say.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum ... 17016.html
Quote:
That was highlighted this week when the international media organisation Politico was covering the visit to Dublin of competition commissioner Margrethe Vestager. Its reporters were less than complimentary of the Oireachtas Finance Committee.

They wrote "half of the 10 lawmakers who showed up walked out of the 90-minute hearing early. By its end, the remaining few were more absorbed in their smartphones and tablets than Vestager…there were no rabid questions or the fireworks more typical of a hearing in London or Brussels. The occasional pointed question seemed aimed at political adversaries in the room rather than the commissioner. And some left soon after they made their point".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:58 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5282
Location: SthDub
Whats going on in NZ?

Apple 'paid no tax' in New Zealand for at least a decade
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39361914
Quote:
Apple is facing scrutiny in New Zealand following reports it paid no tax for at least a decade, despite having logged billions in sales.
An investigation by the New Zealand Herald newspaper found Apple's local unit paid about NZ$37m ($26m; £21m) in taxes since 2007 in Australia instead.
Apple New Zealand's parent company is registered in Australia and the two countries have a treaty where tax is only paid in one jurisdiction.
Apple said the arrangement was legal.
"Apple is the largest taxpayer in the world and we appreciate and respect the role taxes play as necessary and important in our society," the company said.
"We follow the law and pay tax on everything we earn, wherever we operate. Apple aims to be a force for good and we're proud of the contributions we've made in New Zealand over the past decade."
Some tax experts have called the arrangement unusual given that Australia's corporate tax rate of 30% is higher than New Zealand's....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:53 pm 
Offline
Private Tenant

Joined: Sep 7, 2010
Posts: 42
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-want ... 1493057898

Trump wants a proposal for a 15% corporate tax rate by Wednesday. Doesn't have to be revenue neutral.
Good look getting that through Congress.

But if he achieves it, or even say a 25% rate it will be bad news for Ireland.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:33 pm 
Offline
Private Tenant

Joined: Sep 7, 2010
Posts: 42
tulipman wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-wants-tax-plan-to-cut-corporate-rate-to-15-1493057898

Trump wants a proposal for a 15% corporate tax rate by Wednesday. Doesn't have to be revenue neutral.
Good luck getting that through Congress.

But if he achieves it, or even say a 25% rate it will be bad news for Ireland.



Apparently Mnuchin and the US Treasury wants to use a "dynamic" method of calculating revenue where growth (and tax revenue) increases because of the tax cuts, whereas the people who will vote on it, the US Congress, uses a "static" method where cuts in tax have to be made up in cuts in spending. Something their voters don't like so much.

Mods: BTW if this belongs on a different thread please move it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:29 pm 
Offline
Private Tenant

Joined: Sep 7, 2010
Posts: 42
tulipman wrote:
tulipman wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-wants-tax-plan-to-cut-corporate-rate-to-15-1493057898

Trump wants a proposal for a 15% corporate tax rate by Wednesday. Doesn't have to be revenue neutral.
Good luck getting that through Congress.

But if he achieves it, or even say a 25% rate it will be bad news for Ireland.



Apparently Mnuchin and the US Treasury wants to use a "dynamic" method of calculating revenue where growth (and tax revenue) increases because of the tax cuts, whereas the people who will vote on it, the US Congress, uses a "static" method where cuts in tax have to be made up in cuts in spending. Something their voters don't like so much.

Mods: BTW if this belongs on a different thread please move it.


https://www.ft.com/content/9906bcdc-2a8 ... 8383da43b7

Steven Mnuchin promises biggest tax cut in US history


He wants 15% corp tax. Estimated to cost 2.2 trillion dollars over 10 years. He cannot guarantee it will be revenue neutral, so difficult for Ryan and company.

The Joint Tax committee says even a reduction to 20% would cause a "non negligible revenue loss"

I think they will end up with 20-25% corp tax.

This (15%-20%) reduction will definitely affect FDI into Ireland.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:39 pm 
Offline
IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31135
Location: Tullamore
tulipman wrote:
This (15%-20%) reduction will definitely affect FDI into Ireland.

In what way? Tax paid overseas is and will continue to be an offset against US tax.

_________________
"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:22 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Nov 9, 2006
Posts: 4482
Location: South of the Border
Hopefully you will be able to read this its the one pager given out at the press conference

https://twitter.com/alivitali/status/857288194290839553


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 278 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bystander, Open Window and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to: