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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:38 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?


Or a reduction in the corporate tax slush fund generated every year and used to buy votes in the budget?

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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:39 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?

That's not how I read it.

If they're making sales here they can book the revenue here.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?

That's not how I read it.

If they're making sales here they can book the revenue here.

Right. So if anything, move more foreign staff to Dublin so you’re making the sale here.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:08 pm 
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eh, the VAT will surely be charged else where?


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?

That's not how I read it.

If they're making sales here they can book the revenue here.

But they won't be making those sales here any more:
Quote:
Facebook has decided to move to a local selling structure in countries where we have an office to support sales to local advertisers. In simple terms, this means that advertising revenue supported by our local teams will no longer be recorded by our international headquarters in Dublin, but will instead be recorded by our local company in that country.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:05 pm 
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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tec ... -1.3324646

Quote:

In a move that will be seen as a response to long-standing criticism by global governments of its tax planning, Facebook has announced that it will no longer book non-US revenues from large advertisers through its Dublin unit.
From January 1st, Facebook will begin the process of booking revenues from large advertisers in about 28 countries - including France, Germany and other major European markets - in the countries in which they were earned. It will also pay the taxes on those revenues in those countries, and not in Ireland.


Quote:
Shrinking Irish tax bill
When fully implemented, the decision is likely to result in a huge slice of the international income routed through Ireland - €12.6 billion in 2016 - being diverted elsewhere. Facebook’s Irish tax bill - €29.5 million last year - is also likely to significantly shrink.
In practice, the change will only affect the revenues of large advertisers which have contact with a local sales office. Non -US revenues from SMEs and individuals who advertise on Facebook using its automated booking system will continue to be booked through Ireland.
Facebook did not say what proportion of the revenues currently booked through Ireland comprise large advertisers.
It is understood that the move will have no direct impact on job numbers at its Irish operations, which employs more than 2,000 in Dublin, and last month promised “hundreds” more. The company will also continue to maintain its international headquarters here.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:21 pm 
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FT
Quote:

The move could mean the company faces higher taxes as it books revenue in countries such as France, Germany and Italy. But depending on how it accounts for its expenses in each jurisdiction, it may not pay much more tax overall. Revenue from its self-serve platform, where millions of small advertisers buy inventory, will continue to be booked in Ireland.

...

A UK corporate lawyer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the change could lead to a 25 per cent increase in corporate tax payments by Facebook in countries including Germany and France.

However he added that the announcement did not mark a significant departure from how other companies are structuring their businesses for tax purposes. “I don’t think it’s monumental at all,” he said. “I think this is in line with what we have seen elsewhere.

“We will see other people doing this, because this is further indication that using a local company for sales support but saying actual sales are in Ireland is quite a tough sell,” he added.



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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Think this is a reaction to make sure they don't have all their eggs in one (tax jurisdiction) basket.
Paying a few more million in tax overall, in multiple countries, is worth the attempt at a hedge in paying billions in tax to just one country.
Ireland did well to get this far but we need to come up with a new shtick now. Trend is moving away from what we used to offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
So what does this mean for Facebook in Dublin...relocation of international staff based here to the new localised offices around European capitals?

That's not how I read it.

If they're making sales here they can book the revenue here.


the local sales teams get the clients, but the teams in dublin sign off on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:43 am 
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29.5 million? Oh woe, woe is us. Where on earth will we find it? The thing is, most of those companies weren't paying any tax here either. The Dutch sandwich bit is where it all escapes to some tax haven through the Netherlands or Luxembourg having been washed in Ireland.

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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm 
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'Our views on tax are different - and will come to a head soon' - German ambassador
The two nations' differing stances regarding tax harmonisation will inevitably come to a head in 2018.
It is a recurring bone of contention among the bigger EU member states and smaller ones like Ireland whose selling point for foreign direct investment is led by attractive tax relief.


Uh-oh. We're going to be made to see sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Ah shure the last time a German Ambassador spoke up about Ireland he was shown to be talking through his hat!


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:12 pm 
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AWAAF wrote:
Ah shure the last time a German Ambassador spoke up about Ireland he was shown to be talking through his hat!



truly a simpler time!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/r ... 18339.html

Quote:
In his 15-minute speech the ambassador said:

Ireland was a "coarse place".
Junior ministers here earned more than the German Chancellor.
Some 20pc of the population were public servants.
Our "chaotic" hospital waiting lists would not be tolerated anywhere else.
Wage demands were too high.
Our immigration policy was wrong and we had learned nothing from Germany or the Nordic countries.
He also cited the doctors' rejection of €200,000 a year posts on the basis that this sum was "Mickey Mouse" money and referred to the former dominant position of the Catholic Church within the country.

His listeners, mainly members of the German Federation of Buying and Marketing groups, representing medium-sized businesses, loved his delivery.


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 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:13 am 
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The German ambassador was on the money on certain items in 2007, but what German/Nordic alternative was he advocating as regards immigration?


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