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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:44 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
a) What should be the base motivation for the creation of public policy (in the Irish context)? In other words, in whose interest do you believe public policy should be pursued/created?

Various people. It's complicated. In the interests of expediency, can you give me multiple choices that I can rank and weight?

Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
b) Is that what occurs at present?

If you mean "is the country run in my favourite way?", the answer is no. (Citation: Louis CK)

Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
c) If not, why not?

Because I am not the despotic king of Ireland? What are you expecting, some deus ex machina that makes the world the way I want it?


I see.

Let me rephrase once again.

Do you accept that the affairs of the country called Ireland should be managed and run in the best interests* of the majority of Irish people? Could you accept that as an agreeable starting point three pages and three days later?

*to be decided

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

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Posts: 4548
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Let me rephrase once again.

Do you accept that the affairs of the country called Ireland should be managed and run in the best interests* of the majority of Irish people? Could you accept that as an agreeable starting point three pages and three days later?

*to be decided

It's a start but is way too simple. For starters, how do you define "Irish"? People currently resident? People with Irish citizenship currently resident?

What do you mean by "best interests of the majority"? What does that say about the interests of minorities? How do you group people together?

For instance: if 90% of Irish citizens currently resident are white, should I run the country in the best interests of white people?

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

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And which majority, for that matter? For instance, the majority of Irish people are urban, but we probably shouldn't be adopting policies purely on the basis of the urban population.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 5819
Location: On the Road
Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Let me rephrase once again.

Do you accept that the affairs of the country called Ireland should be managed and run in the best interests* of the majority of Irish people? Could you accept that as an agreeable starting point three pages and three days later?

*to be decided

It's a start but is way too simple. For starters, how do you define "Irish"? People currently resident? People with Irish citizenship currently resident?

What do you mean by "best interests of the majority"? What does that say about the interests of minorities? How do you group people together?

For instance: if 90% of Irish citizens currently resident are white, should I run the country in the best interests of white people?


Thanks for that.

Your additional points are fair enough. But at least if theres some degree of common intent then presumably theres at least something to consider.

Personally, I would include all Irish citizens, both resident on the island and elsewhere. There may be a case for excluding non-resident dual nationals but I certainly feel the emigrant constituency, given the history of Ireland, should be included.

Beyond that, Id suggest that considerations around race etc should be disregarded....but Id imagine you're just being funny throwing that one in there....

Somebody else above has queried which majority (as per my previous reference). Which is a fair question also but presumably there can only be one majority within any population segment or whole (unless perhaps within some form of devolved democracy)....and the only way that Im aware of to determine what the majority are in favour of is via the ballot box.....so either full trust in the wider population ie some form of direct democracy or less trust a la our current parliamentary approach (the results of which appear to be pretty disappointing) or something else in between or indeed beyond....Im not really qualified to tease out the various alternatives but maybe somebody else could assist....

However, again with a nod to the other poster, there exists the question of whether the majority of people are actually capable of making informed choices on their own behalf? Its obviously a question that goes to the very heart of the democratic process and is to my mind the ultimate base on which the current wave of populism thats sweeping western countries is based ie many many appear to people feel that they have quite clearly had their wishes ignored for some time now by what are perceived to be an 'elite' class that would appear to issue dictats that apply more to the lives of others than to their own....Now maybe thats a good thing. Personally Id tend toward the view that its bad as it is only ever going to breed resentment and ultimate pushback....

Anyway, resultantly, IMO one of the questions people in Ireland should be addressing (if they wish to avoid a similar occurrence here given that we often tend to replicate trends within our nearest neighbour a few years later), is how best to avoid reproducing the same type of problems that have led to the rise of this populist movement elsewhere? Or maybe its simply inevitable? Id hope with advance warning that we could hope to do a bit better. Although, its possible that an Irish version might manifest itself as a SF or God forbid, a new FF....so Im back to the notion of somebody somewhere (a lot smarter than me) arriving at a vision for the future of this society that is better than the present ie something about which people can be positive and thereby legitimised through some form of collective belief or action...cos right now it doesnt seem to exist....

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"It is difficult to be certain about anything except what you have seen with your own eyes, and consciously or unconsciously everyone writes as a partisan.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Location: Oighearland
bullet dodged, 8 rescued from upper floor of building in Mountjoy square.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0221/854178 ... g-in-dubl/

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advice to future unemployed TDs at the next general election: dont look at it as a failure, see it as an opportunity to 'upskill'.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Thing Fish wrote:
8 rescued from upper floor of building in Mountjoy square.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0221/854178 ... g-in-dubl/


The report is now saying eleven people rescued from the top floor...that's quite a lot even assuming there are probably three smallish rooms up there...


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:55 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
Thing Fish wrote:
8 rescued from upper floor of building in Mountjoy square.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0221/854178 ... g-in-dubl/


The report is now saying eleven people rescued from the top floor...that's quite a lot even assuming there are probably three smallish rooms up there...

must be 4 to a bedroom now.

as per thejournal this was a dwelling, and not some early morning high-power business breakfast

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:46 am 
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This even shocked me

"150 people living in three Dublin houses where fire occurred, Dáil told"

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... e-occurred

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Thing Fish wrote:
This even shocked me

"150 people living in three Dublin houses where fire occurred, Dáil told"

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... e-occurred

About to be discussed on the Pat Kenny show


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Location: Oighearland
FreeFallin wrote:
Thing Fish wrote:
This even shocked me

"150 people living in three Dublin houses where fire occurred, Dáil told"

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... e-occurred

About to be discussed on the Pat Kenny show


Limiting number of tenants, that's fine but none can afford €1,500 a month. and Brid went off on a tangent about her pet project that has nothing to do with housing :roll: .

why are people really living 4 to a bedroom? :x

legislating against this just creates more business for the Dail bar 8DD

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:50 pm 
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On Joe Duffy now:

Woman who shared a room with 15 others in a basement in Dublin. She paid €250 per month for what was advertised as student accommodation for foreign students studying english. 1 bathroom.
Upstairs there was another 4 or 5 people per bedroom.

Sounds like the Portobello house featured in the Indo a few weeks back


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Posts: 1699
How is the state expected to police this?

Behaviour that goes on behind closed doors is always the hardest to prove, even if many people know about it.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 4548
Skippy 3 wrote:
How is the state expected to police this?

Behaviour that goes on behind closed doors is always the hardest to prove, even if many people know about it.

Cash incentives for whistleblowing?

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Oct 7, 2014
Posts: 973
Skippy 3 wrote:
How is the state expected to police this?

Behaviour that goes on behind closed doors is always the hardest to prove, even if many people know about it.


You can't, not when these people have nowhere else to go. You need to solve the underlying problem first, then maybe you can do something around incentivising whistle blowers.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 2945
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
FreeFallin wrote:
On Joe Duffy now:
Woman who shared a room with 15 others in a basement in Dublin. She paid €250 per month for what was advertised as student accommodation for foreign students studying english. 1 bathroom. Upstairs there was another 4 or 5 people per bedroom. Sounds like the Portobello house featured in the Indo a few weeks back

And did you hear the stand-in host
But you were not forced to live there. You could leave at any time. There is nothing illegal about it.
Caller corrected her on absent legal fire regulations etc.


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