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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:22 pm 
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newirishman wrote:
the dude wrote:
onioneater wrote:
People stating the idea that FG actively want higher house prices, to restrict supply or cause homelessness is loony territory. As per my previous post you might be more credible if you pointed to their typically laissez faire attitude or ineptness.
.


Of course they don't want to cause homelessness, it makes them look bad

But they can live with it as a down side of their goal of higher rents/house prices

I can't think of anything FG have done to lower prices

onioneater wrote:
By the way most of the Brazilians here have EU passports (usually Italian passports for some obscure reason). So once again this is a feature of our EU membership and something that any Irish government cannot easily prevent.


If you said Portuguese passports some might have believed you


Onioneater is right though, regardless what you believe or not. And the reason is less obscure as you might think.
Have a read here as a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Brazilians

Italy gives out Italian passports rather quickly if you can show Italian ancestry, Grandparent or great-grand parent is usually sufficient.
3-4 months if you are in Italy and have your paperwork in reasonably good order.

And as mentioned various times in other threads: Just because you have an EU passport doesn't mean you can automatically stay indefinitely without a job or a place to live or means to support you in any other EU country. Just because we don't bother checking or kicking them out doesn't mean we couldn't. There are very specific laws and rules guiding this, plus individual countries have quite a lot of leeway.
Of course, if they have a job and the means to support yourself, and all above board, it would be very difficult to kick these people out. But why would you want to if that's the case.


I'm well aware of the fact that for many in South America it possible to get a Spanish or as you point out an Italian passport

However its pretty clear that most Brazilians in Dublin don't have Italian or other EU passports, I think it was 2013 when the Irish government did a deal with the Brazilian government to make it easier for more Brazilians to study in Ireland, are you telling me that it was only after that fact that Brazilians with EU passports suddenly got the idea to move to Ireland, why did we not see them in large numbers previous to that ?

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Last edited by the dude on Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3073
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
newirishman wrote:
That is some serious allegations to make. Have you reported this to the authorities?

They already know
On hearing the DoJ had made no move to deport the Brazilian, Judge Durcan said: “God help Ireland.”
“Someone who comes here from outside and obtains a false driving licence should be deported but the people who run the Department of Justice disagree. I just don’t understand the attitude of the department in relation to people who come in here on the basis of false ID documents; who parade around the country on the basis of false documents — that is a false driving licence; fly around without insurance, as it is based on falsehoods — that such persons are not deported.”
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ju ... 48435.html

and further 489 Brazilian nationals refused entry to Ireland in 2016


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 318
the dude wrote:
onioneater wrote:
People stating the idea that FG actively want higher house prices, to restrict supply or cause homelessness is loony territory. As per my previous post you might be more credible if you pointed to their typically laissez faire attitude or ineptness.
.


Of course they don't want to cause homelessness, it makes them look bad

But they can live with it as a down side of their goal of higher rents/house prices

I can't think of anything FG have done to lower prices

onioneater wrote:
By the way most of the Brazilians here have EU passports (usually Italian passports for some obscure reason). So once again this is a feature of our EU membership and something that any Irish government cannot easily prevent.


If you said Portuguese passports some might have believed you


Have you ever seen a Brazilian person's CV? I have seen plenty, probably well north of 100 CVs of Brazilians applying for IT roles. Invariably they have Italian passports.

There has been an economic slowdown in Brazil over recent years and hence its not a mystery why Brazilians, particularly those with EU passports, should arrive here in numbers. Numbers of Venezuelans have also turned up here for similar reasons. At the same time there has been a big slowdown in the amount of new Italians, Poles and Spanish coming here for IT roles so you could argue that Brazilians are now valuable in helping us overcome the ongoing IT skills shortage here.

These things develop a momentum of their own and once a large community builds up, then you have Brazilians with no EU passports coming here to "study English", many of those probably hoping to get a job here. As you can see from links posted Irish immigration seem to be now cracking down on these, but probably not as efficiently as many would hope.

Saying that this is some sort of FG masterplan is tinfoil hat territory. Their only master plan is to get from one election to the next, while doing as little as possible to rock the boat.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sep 9, 2017
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Ireland should be good at the 2042 world cup anyway


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5502
Location: SthDub
Focus Ireland: Survey of the Families that became homeless in March 2017
https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/ ... -FINAL.pdf

The survey covers 38 of the 77 families to become homeless that month.

32% of the respondents were aged between 18 and 25 years.
21% were 26 to 35 years.
47 % were over the age of 36 years.

74% were born in Ireland.
5% were born in the rest of the EU.
21% were outside the EU.
(The 2016 average was 46% Migrant)

74% are unemployed

3 issues I see here:
1. Migration is driving a large part of the homeless crisis. And it would actually be a lot worse if it wasn't for the slum landlords discusssed in this thread!
2. a third of the respondents are 18 to 25 years old, in the prime of their youth. Why cant these people remain at home/get a job and rent a room?
3. How is it possible that so many people are unemployed at a time of near full employment


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:00 am 
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onioneater wrote:
Have you ever seen a Brazilian person's CV? I have seen plenty, probably well north of 100 CVs of Brazilians applying for IT roles. Invariably they have Italian passports.

There has been an economic slowdown in Brazil over recent years and hence its not a mystery why Brazilians, particularly those with EU passports, should arrive here in numbers. Numbers of Venezuelans have also turned up here for similar reasons. At the same time there has been a big slowdown in the amount of new Italians, Poles and Spanish coming here for IT roles so you could argue that Brazilians are now valuable in helping us overcome the ongoing IT skills shortage here.


I don't doubt that they exist, I just doubt that Brazilians working in IT make up the majority of the population, its hard to prove one way of the other since they will just be counted along with other Italian/EU workers

And I doubt its the IT Brazilians who are living 40 to a house


onioneater wrote:
Saying that this is some sort of FG masterplan is tinfoil hat territory. Their only master plan is to get from one election to the next, while doing as little as possible to rock the boat.


FG want to win the next election, most voters love rising house prices, I don't need a tinfoil hat to know that much

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:35 am 
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Posts: 1882
Coles2 wrote:
So I wonder how many of these tenants completed the 2016 Census? Absolutely none of them maybe?



This is a good question. Census 2016 showed about 200 private households with 12 or more persons resident. Data below.


2011 2016

12 or more person household 159 196


There is also some data on how many private households there are with three or more persons per room. This seems to have fallen since 2016


2011 2016
3 or more persons per room Dublin City 955 647

Note, all of these are for private households, not hostels or institutions of any other kind.


Regarding coverage the CSO use the geodirectory which has >99% of households and business premises in the state. The CSO insist in public that each household is visited multiple times before being assessed as empty. Inquiries are made of neighbours too. They say that there are negligible instances of people refusing to engage with them.

I would wager that the coverage of native owner-occupiers aged over 60 is essentially perfect.

If there is non-compliance and gaps in the data it is most likely to be in the private rented sector, particularly in irregular set-ups like those highlighted by RTE with a very transient population. But as for how much it is impossible to say. The data above suggest that at least some of these kinds of places are being captured.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Joe Duffy Radio1 now discussing overcrowding

24 people renting in a small terraced Dublin house in Eoghan Murphy's SCD constituency.
Sharing two bathrooms and one kitchen, six green bins & 4 black bins
paying €400pm each rent

Mostly Brazilians. 24 poor Brazilian language students stuck in there doing menial jobs like dog-walking and deliveries


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 418
I was thinking today listening to that, how do the owners maintain control over the property? When you hear stories of it taking 2 years to get an uncooperative tenant out what stops these places turning into total free for all squats? 24/24 tenants all paying up €400 on time every month is unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Thargor wrote:
I was thinking today listening to that, how do the owners maintain control over the property? When you hear stories of it taking 2 years to get an uncooperative tenant out what stops these places turning into total free for all squats? 24/24 tenants all paying up €400 on time every month is unlikely.


The gross yields are very high.

The net yields may not be as attractive.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:51 am 
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temene wrote:
Joe Duffy Radio1 now discussing overcrowding

24 people renting in a small terraced Dublin house in Eoghan Murphy's SCD constituency.
Sharing two bathrooms and one kitchen, six green bins & 4 black bins
paying €400pm each rent

Mostly Brazilians. 24 poor Brazilian language students stuck in there doing menial jobs like dog-walking and deliveries


I wonder do the 'No-Borders' people have anything to say about the fact that most of those who appear to be living in these conditions come from a non-visa required country in the Developing world ie Brazil?

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:57 am 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
temene wrote:
Joe Duffy Radio1 now discussing overcrowding

24 people renting in a small terraced Dublin house in Eoghan Murphy's SCD constituency.
Sharing two bathrooms and one kitchen, six green bins & 4 black bins
paying €400pm each rent

Mostly Brazilians. 24 poor Brazilian language students stuck in there doing menial jobs like dog-walking and deliveries


I wonder do the 'No-Borders' people have anything to say about the fact that most of those who appear to be living in these conditions come from a non-visa required country in the Developing world ie Brazil?


I mentioned that in a FB discussion recently - the fact that we are importing a lot of third world poverty and conditions. A "friend" was doing the usual virtue-signalling - letting the world know how much he cares about people on the streets and how something should be done about it- with lots of "shame on us" sprinkled through his post. I was given a lecture on the benefits of immigration, and the usual "would-you-have-denied-Irish-people-in-the-famine-the-chance-of-a-new-life" kind of stuff. I replied with facts, reports, stats etc - like the one below. I was promptly de-friended - but not before an accusatory, projected guilt-trip: "I hope you'll sleep soundly in your warm bed tonight." Most Irish people don't like to hear the truth, or to contemplate practical or logical solutions to any issue. Emotions are all that matter.

http://connachttribune.ie/new-data-show ... broad-040/
A further 35 (including 26 males and nine females) were “without habitual residency”. This means that around 40% of the rough sleepers are not ordinarily resident in Ireland and do not have close links with the country.
The figures were presented at a multi-agency meeting convened to highlight the homelessness problem, and negative impact rough sleepers were having on city centre businesses.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 pm 
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HiFi wrote:

I mentioned that in a FB discussion recently - the fact that we are importing a lot of third world poverty and conditions. A "friend" was doing the usual virtue-signalling - letting the world know how much he cares about people on the streets and how something should be done about it- with lots of "shame on us" sprinkled through his post. I was given a lecture on the benefits of immigration, and the usual "would-you-have-denied-Irish-people-in-the-famine-the-chance-of-a-new-life" kind of stuff.


Why are Brazilians not living in cramped conditions in west Donegal?

Because cities is where job growth is - the world over - and this is why young people both natives and foreigners want to live in them.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Posts: 4752
We are not "importing third world poverty and conditions", we are manufacturing them. It's a thoroughly local product.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:12 pm 
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There's a guy on Joe Duffy right now. Spanish. came to Dublin "to find a better life"...and has been sleeping on the streets more or less from the start.

(Says he worked with an "agency" for a week or two and then ran out of money.)


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