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 Post subject: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:30 pm 
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This can't be true, can it? Surely the neighbours would notice...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/52pzhc/landlords_renting_houses_to_40_tenants/

"today another student told me that she lives with 67 people out near cabinteely, she pays 200. Should I report this and to who?"

67 * 200 * 12 = €161k pa!


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:21 pm 
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I once lived in an old-ish apartment with a very large living room (2 bedrooms, one bathroom).

Landlord told me that previous tenants had squeezed 9 or 10 after pretending it was only 3. Bunk beds in the living room was the trick.

They were immigrants and this was 2005 or 2006 I think.

I really don't have a problem with it. People have very different preferences for saving and material comfort particularly over the short run.

Once neighbours are not disturbed it should not be an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Yeah + 1, I don't see the problem with it, people in the likes of India and Africa live in far worse conditions and it does them no harm

It looks to be a great way to cut rents for the tenants while at the same time landlords can increase profits, zero downside, whats not to like, if we could find a way for employers of the tenants to get in on the act and cut wages it would be great for the economy

And 200 a month to live out near Cabinteely is an absolute bargin

I might invest in one of these flats once the new first time buyers grant comes in, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur

Of course I would hate to have to live like that myself, its for other people not me

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:38 pm 
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I'm a TEFL teacher and I have one student who lives in a house with more that 40 people, he told me he pays around 300 a month, today another student told me that she lives with 67 people out near cabinteely, she pays 200. Should I report this and to who?


Renting a room on your own in Dublin can cost €200 per week! The TEFL teacher does not say what nationality their students are, but I'll hazard a guess and say South American and most likely Brazil. Legally they can only work 20 hours per week in Ireland to offset their costs. There is no mention of the duration of the students course, most likely it is 12 months, so if these guys can cut the cost of accommodation to €50-€75 per week by sharing then of course that's what they are logically going to do. In case you think the landlord is coining it, that many people come with shoe leather costs so any profits will be tempered with much higher maintenance overheads.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:03 pm 
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I'm amazed that every posts a justification for what is illegal and, frankly, a disgrace.

How long will it take for this to be acceptable for the poor.

Or, for your own children (or grandchildren) who are students themselves.

As a small landlord myself, I could never justify it. We're all in it for profit; but sometimes you have to question ethics (or lack thereof)


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:12 pm 
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I do believe tongues are in cheek so to speak.
However,
This Dublin flat is pulling in €6000pm by putting four beds in each of the four bedrooms at €1500pm per room...if the ad is to believed. Each room is equipped with a bunk bed as well as a single bed with a sofa below, guaranteeing a comfortable social environment https://www.spotahome.com/dublin/for-rent:rooms/95606


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:25 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:

I really don't have a problem with it.


well the law does have a problem with it ...... thankfully

that's an absolute fucking disgrace

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:16 pm 
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Quote:
Each room is equipped with a bunk bed as well as a single bed with a sofa below,

Sounds like the accommodation in Wheatfield!

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:42 pm 
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This does not surprise me. Whenever we put a job ad out, half the applicants seem to be from south America and they mostly have addresses in the north city centre. I just have visions of 10 of them to a room. These countries have huge populations and if a very small portion are here, it would be easy to overwhelm the accommodation in Dublin. They all seem to be on student visas but we all know about that scam.....


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:49 pm 
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These people have chosen to live like that. If the landlord is OK with it, what's the problem.

It's effectively a hostel.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:57 pm 
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alanfox wrote:
I'm amazed that every posts a justification for what is illegal and, frankly, a disgrace.

How long will it take for this to be acceptable for the poor.

Or, for your own children (or grandchildren) who are students themselves.

As a small landlord myself, I could never justify it. We're all in it for profit; but sometimes you have to question ethics (or lack thereof)


I'm not aware of any defined occupancy limits in laws governing tenant leases in Ireland. Do you have the link? There may be restrictions under the landlords insurance policies or fire regulations. I'm not aware of any Irish people doing this, AFAIK it is primarily foreign students from poor countries and the Roma who do this. As you know cheap rental accommodation is in short supply in Dublin and landlords being price takers will usually take the maximum bid offered when they let the apartment or house. What actually happens in cases like this is the landlord will let a flat to a couple, however, the tenants mates will also be looking for accommodation and unable to afford the steep prices so they will bunk down with the initial couple. The landlord cannot stop this happening unless the terms of the rental contract expressly prohibit them, so rather than turning a blind eye to it some will facilitate the arrangement by providing bunk beds and collect the extra rent. I've known tenants to source the bunk beds themselves and pay the rent to the original tenants. I'm also not aware of anyone who does this long term, it is a short term discomfort for the people involved.

By all means you can close these operations down, how do you then propose to compensate for the lack of cheap accommodation available to students from poor countries without the backing of a generous welfare state to cover them? Suppose Mrs. Merkel gets her way and imposes refugee quotas on Ireland, where will the extra accommodation be found?

One other factor to consider is the impact of the enforcement of regulations on tenants, the council inspections of bedsits found 90% at the time did not meet basic standards set in the laws. Those operations have been closed and the landlords that stayed in the game have upgraded their premises and the price to match, so any operations that come up that undercut these landlords will be flagged to the council. The council has eased off on the inspections since then as the shelter costs have ended up on their door step and at the margins these ex-tenants have died on the street from exposure complicated by drug and alcohol addiction. Did you know when the mass evictions happened in Phibsboro that tenants who could not find a place to stay slept in the Phoenix park (the Summer was good that year), the council noticed this and cleared the undergrowth in the park to deny them cover and they eventually moved on around the city centre where the homeless charities reported an increase in the number of people sleeping rough plus the drug addiction problem became more visible.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:15 pm 
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I've been aware of this for some time. For the last few years I've been working for companies who cycle Indian workers in and out of Dublin on short term visas. Basically these guys live 3 to a room - two single beds and one guy on a mattress on the floor - they rotate through the beds. One of the companies used to rent flats and short term apartments and put the guys (and girls - I'm not sure about the girls arrangements - I've never asked or heard) in them at normal occupancy rates i.e. 2 guys in a 2 bed flat. As their (and everybody elses) staff numbers expanded they found it was increasingly difficult to find apartments at reasonable rents so they basically give staff a monthly allowance and let them make their own arrangements - they love this - I think the company gives them around 800 pm - they rent a two bed for 1400 and pay just over 200 each - 600 times 3 months (the normal placement length) is 1800 yoyos - big money in India. I met a new employee outside his flat in D2 to show him the way to the office - he introduced me to his flatmates - 6 others - I hope it was a 3 bed but maybe not.

In one of the cases the tenants were paying their rent in cash to the sister of the owner - who lived in Australia.

I have to assume this level of occupancy is illegal in some way - I would love to know. I guess we'll find out when there is some kind of tragedy - Ireland never reacts until someone dies.

Of course I can remember Irish friends making the same kind of arrangements working in Germany, New York and London in the 1980s!


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:53 am 
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metalmike wrote:
Of course I can remember Irish friends making the same kind of arrangements working in Germany, New York and London in the 1980s!

Five first year students spread over two rooms in digs in the 1990s wasn't all that different either. As a temporary measure it was fine. By second year you found a house rental with more room to spread out.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:12 am 
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The Order of the Pin to the first post that successfully squares the problem of open borders and a fixed supply of rental properties.

My mother was considering becoming a BTL landlord back in 2009/10. What put her off was that most of the one-beds she viewed in the north inner city seemed to have 3-4 immigrants sleeping in them.

Neither rental market nor labour market was all that hot back then by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tenants in one house
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:15 am 
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JohnnyTheFox wrote:
metalmike wrote:
Of course I can remember Irish friends making the same kind of arrangements working in Germany, New York and London in the 1980s!

Five first year students spread over two rooms in digs in the 1990s wasn't all that different either. As a temporary measure it was fine. By second year you found a house rental with more room to spread out.


There was a press report some years ago about a semi d in London occupied by 37 ozzies and kiwis, maybe still there, it had some health and safety problems after the landlord removed the vacuum cleaner from under the stairs and stuck in another five bunk beds so the place was a pit


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