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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:34 am 
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Too Big to Fail
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SoCoDu wrote:
FTBer wrote:
http://m.independent.ie/business/budget/comment-reaction/we-were-hardsaving-for-about-two-yearsliving-in-an-absolute-box-firsttime-buyers-delight-with-20k-tax-rebate-35122075.html

Indo wrote:
When asked what sacrifices they made in order to save, Paul admits he and his girlfriend haven’t been living the high life.

“We’ve been hard-saving for about two years. We chose to holiday in Ireland instead of abroad and we wouldn’t have been living life to the fullest,” he said.

This is an outrage, the plight of first time buyers has finally be revealed by the Indo! :roll:

They had to save for a whole two years before they could buy a €450,000 house in Churchtown. I'm surprised they didn't give a link to a new GoFundMe campaign to raise sufficient funds for the FTBs in question to get the high life they deserve!

Christ :roll:

This grant is even more laughable as it will benefit a swathe of buyers who have already bought, i.e. could already afford it, and did not need any further help to buy. It's just a handout to them, while the next phase of FTBs will get screwed with hugely inflated prices. Not to mention the fact that it completely undermines the good work being done by the Central Bank on deposit requirements. The whole thing is such a farce that it beggars belief.



This.

Saved for almost 10 years and it is far from Churchtown we bought.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:36 am 
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Barmiest Loon wrote:
There was some talk in the leaks about new reliefs for restoring heritage property but can't see anything in the Budget itself. Am I missing it or it got scrapped?

Living City Initiative? It's already in place, they just announced some tweaks:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflet ... ative.html

There's also Section 482 heritage houses, which is a different thing. Applies to approved houses that are made available for public viewing.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflet ... erties.pdf [Download link]

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:37 am 
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Property Magnate

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Posts: 620
SoCoDu wrote:
Barmiest Loon wrote:
There was some talk in the leaks about new reliefs for restoring heritage property but can't see anything in the Budget itself. Am I missing it or it got scrapped?

Living City Initiative? It's already in place, they just announced some tweaks:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflet ... ative.html

There's also Section 482 heritage houses, which is a different thing. Applies to approved houses that are made available for public viewing.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflet ... erties.pdf [Download link]


I was hoping there might be some additions/improvements to Section 482


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:38 am 
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Property Magnate

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Posts: 613
There is talk about the Central Bank and Dept. of Finance being at "loggerheads" (whatever that means, I've never understood it!)

Gov. Lane of the CB should announce a new measure of increased deposits required for mortgages to counteract the stupid FF/FG crap of a rebate to first time buyers.


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:48 am 
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TheJackal wrote:
jammyBastard wrote:
What's the story with the central bank deposit requirements and this grant through?

If it's allowed to be considered as part of the deposit, then surely it should be immediately reconciled against the mortgage balance?

i.e. will the bank lend 85%, with the LTV becoming 80% when the tax rebate gets applied?

Do those who have already bought just get a cheque or do they get a chunk paid off their mortgage?


I got an email off SherryFitz yesterday saying the Central Bank Governor has confirmed the grant counts towards your deposit total.

So if you needed 50K deposit and qualify for 20K in the grant, then you now only need 30K deposit

The reason the CBoI is happy with the scheme is best explained with a few examples :)

Prior to the introduction this scheme a first time buyer required a deposit of €58k to €98k to buy a house priced €400k to €600k. This means the first time buyer has a LTV of 85.5% to 83.7%

Under the new scheme a buyer of a :
1. €400khouse will have a LTV of 85% (vs 85.5%)
2. €600k house will have a LTV of 83.3% (vs 83.7%)


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:45 pm 
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Worth noting the couple that said "God Bless Michael Noonan" also said, "...this new scheme will probably push the price up for newly built homes in the next while."

So once they're alright they're happy enough for anyone coming after them to get shafted.


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:47 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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80% of FTB's buy 2nd hand homes so this scheme is only of benefit to the 20%.

For the record- FF wanted the scheme to apply to second hand houses also


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:38 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Jan 31, 2007
Posts: 333
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Luan wrote:
TheJackal wrote:
jammyBastard wrote:
What's the story with the central bank deposit requirements and this grant through?

If it's allowed to be considered as part of the deposit, then surely it should be immediately reconciled against the mortgage balance?

i.e. will the bank lend 85%, with the LTV becoming 80% when the tax rebate gets applied?

Do those who have already bought just get a cheque or do they get a chunk paid off their mortgage?


I got an email off SherryFitz yesterday saying the Central Bank Governor has confirmed the grant counts towards your deposit total.

So if you needed 50K deposit and qualify for 20K in the grant, then you now only need 30K deposit

The reason the CBoI is happy with the scheme is best explained with a few examples :)

Prior to the introduction this scheme a first time buyer required a deposit of €58k to €98k to buy a house priced €400k to €600k. This means the first time buyer has a LTV of 85.5% to 83.7%

Under the new scheme a buyer of a :
1. €400khouse will have a LTV of 85% (vs 85.5%)
2. €600k house will have a LTV of 83.3% (vs 83.7%)


Agreed, the CBoI is there to protect us from the banks, not ourselves. The new grant means the banks and their exposure is roughly the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:02 pm 
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But since this grant will only be paid *after* you buy the house, will it have any effect on deposits at all? It's more to help with furnishing it etc I would have thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:04 pm 
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Poc wrote:
Worth noting the couple that said "God Bless Michael Noonan" also said, "...this new scheme will probably push the price up for newly built homes in the next while."

So once they're alright they're happy enough for anyone coming after them to get shafted.

In fairness to them, it's not their fault that baldy is such a numpty. What it shows is that even the wide-eyed FTBs aren't taken in by this counterproductive piece of blatant populism.

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:04 pm 
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The system rewards prudence - to qualify you need be a FTB with an 80% LTV i.e. Only those how have saved the 20% or have received a gift will qualify.

A scheme design to promote the prudent and offspring of the rich :)


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:17 pm 
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Luan wrote:
The system rewards prudence - to qualify you need be a FTB with an 80% LTV i.e. Only those how have saved the 20% or have received a gift will qualify.

A scheme design to promote the prudent and offspring of the rich :)

Not at all - it's designed to help the usual suspects, i.e. the financially reckless/illiterate who will cry that they didn't know property prices could go down if things go tits up again. You have to have an LTV of at least 80% to qualify. If some prudent person only had an LTV of 50% then they would not receive the grant. If someone had a 90% mortgage, then they would qualify. Obviously irrespective of being prudent, anyone who can get a high LTV of 80%+ will now do so in order to qualify, rather than take the lower LTV that they actually want and can afford. It encourages people to borrow more and ensures that people will need much smaller deposits to borrow (on new homes).

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Single Home Owner

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Posts: 193
Look the best we can say is that it could be worse, they have thrown a sop to builders through buyers which will have minimal effect on the market.

I was not expecting to get it because I bought second hand, if I had been given a grant for a second hand property that would have been madness.
However, If the only reason I didn't get it was because it was decided that due to saving and living within my means I borrowed less than 80% and I didn't 'need' it.
That part makes no sense and the line in the report that these FTB (borrowing less than 80%) need no assistance is infuriating.


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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Would it not have made more sense to simply offer a grant to the builders instead? 20k VAT rebate for any new builds sold, subject to TCC?

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 Post subject: Re: Budget 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Another question is would this be continued next year and afterwards, if you are a developer and have land and want to build (and somehow get credit somewhere) you could be bogged down for years in planning system before you even lay a single foundation.

Seems to me the whole thing (and other many measures) in this budgets are just optics to quiet down people complaining to TD's, so the said TDs can point at the half measures and say "see we are doing something" when reality I suspect will be different.


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