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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:17 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
^^ presumably the people defaulting derive a large proportion of their income from the State, so presumably that income is within reach.

AFAIK council rents are set at a rate that is deemed affordable by the tenant, so it's "won't pay" rather than "can't pay". It's bizarre that the risk of being chucked into emergency accommodation is no disincentive.


You would think so, but this issue came up during the water charges debate.

Social welfare rates are very carefully calibrated so that family types are above various poverty thresholds.

Basically if you have mandatory deductions of rent arrears you tip low-income families into the 'poverty' space.

This is a big no-no for the Department of Social Protection, the co-operation of whom you need for any kind of mandatory deductions system.

Right, but aren't the rents also very carefully calibrated using the same criteria?

Or is the theory that the person can pay the exact rent, but not the rent plus arrears, so arrears can therefore never be recovered even if the tenant has stopped paying rent?

It's mathematically beautiful if nothing else.

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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:41 am 
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I think so.

I would favour some kind of system where social rents are deducted at source from long-term welfare recipients.

The fact that there are multiple collection agencies (30 local authorities as well as all the approved housing bodies) makes this difficult to achieve I suspect.


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Another family suing South Dublin County Council
SDCC were providing them with accommodation at the Abberley Court Hotel since September but the family claim they were unlawfully “evicted” from the premises on December 22nd.
The action has been brought by Gareth Phelan and Lisa Murphy, their three children and two other children of Ms Murphy’s from a previous relationship.
Mr Phelan was told it was due to complaints he had made concerning the hotel and was also due to an isolated health-and-safety incident last November when a sock was placed on a smoke detector.
They want orders quashing the decision to withdraw their emergency accommodation in the Abberley Court and to be put back in that hotel and seek declarations including the withdrawal of emergency accommodation was irrational and unreasonable and breached their rights under the Constitution and European Convention on Human Rights. They also seek damages.


The 38 bed Abberley is interesting, having been sold by Nama for ~€2.5m a year ago. Another example of the State paying private investors money for something the State possessed. Dublin Councils are paying ~€500k per week to hotels to house families and another €500k pw to hostels, B&Bs, other accommodation.


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:29 pm 
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temene wrote:
Another family suing South Dublin County Council
SDCC were providing them with accommodation at the Abberley Court Hotel since September but the family claim they were unlawfully “evicted” from the premises on December 22nd.
The action has been brought by Gareth Phelan and Lisa Murphy, their three children and two other children of Ms Murphy’s from a previous relationship.
Mr Phelan was told it was due to complaints he had made concerning the hotel and was also due to an isolated health-and-safety incident last November when a sock was placed on a smoke detector.
They want orders quashing the decision to withdraw their emergency accommodation in the Abberley Court and to be put back in that hotel and seek declarations including the withdrawal of emergency accommodation was irrational and unreasonable and breached their rights under the Constitution and European Convention on Human Rights. They also seek damages.


The 38 bed Abberley is interesting, having been sold by Nama for ~€2.5m a year ago. Another example of the State paying private investors money for something the State possessed. Dublin Councils are paying ~€500k per week to hotels to house families and another €500k pw to hostels, B&Bs, other accommodation.


From the article:The children range from seven years to just a few weeks and the family has been homeless for about a year.


Great idea to continue having children when:

(a) you already have a larger-than-average family with no means of supporting them

(b) you're "homeless".

I give up...


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:59 pm 
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HiFi wrote:
Great idea to continue having children when:

(a) you already have a larger-than-average family with no means of supporting them

(b) you're "homeless".

I give up...


The policy framework is designed completely around child welfare.

This is probably the right thing. Children shouldn't have to suffer for parents' behaviour.

But it means spectacularly perverse incentives though. Women with little labour market prospects have every reason to have children, and several, and they do.

There is a multi-generational aspect too. Ireland has a very high share of jobless households.

At the other end of the spectrum lie middle-aged childless men which the system sees as the 'undeserving poor'


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:46 pm 
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State pays Dublin hotels €38.9m to house ~700 homeless families in 2016.
That's Dublin only!
Nuts.


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:35 pm 
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temene wrote:
State pays Dublin hotels €38.9m to house ~700 homeless families in 2016.
That's Dublin only!
Nuts.


Look on the bright side - at least it keeps some of them from living next door to you - or me.

PS: Re your previous post above:
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/gor ... 46561.html


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:35 pm 
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temene wrote:
State pays Dublin hotels €38.9m to house ~700 homeless families in 2016.
That's Dublin only!
Nuts.


at €54k per family, that would pay the mortgage (and then some) if a private house was bought for them .

someone is getting ridden rock solid here 8- 8- 8- 8-

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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Thing Fish wrote:
temene wrote:
State pays Dublin hotels €38.9m to house ~700 homeless families in 2016.
That's Dublin only!
Nuts.


at €54k per family, that would pay the mortgage (and then some) if a private house was bought for them .

someone is getting ridden rock solid here 8- 8- 8- 8-


If all those "families" in hotels were handed free homes for life with everything paid for, the number of those declaring themselves "homeless" would rocket and we'd be back to square one.

With effectively open borders - the numbers now seeking free accommodation along with other welfare benefits is potentially infinite. We need to drastically reduce the demand for "social" housing, not increase it.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fin ... 14910.html


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Another homeless person dies. Not clear why yet. Barely makes the news.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/02/21/mea ... -offaly-4/


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Posts: 56
temene wrote:
Another homeless person dies. Not clear why yet. Barely makes the news.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/02/21/mea ... -offaly-4/


Of course it didn't make the news. You can die outdoors in Ireland in the summer. Homeless people have a horrifically high death rate, for a variety of reasons, which tend to be attract varying degrees of publicity depending on which way the media wind is blowing.

The young fella involved here doesn't seem to have been in trouble with the law: what was his story? Why did he die outdoors on a February night? What bit him?

Full disclosure: I moved full-time to Bratislava 2 months ago. The major homeless problem here is because of the drink. It almost exclusively affects middle-aged men. Why is Ireland so different? Why can we not cope with this?


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:38 pm 
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mickandmac wrote:
temene wrote:
Another homeless person dies. Not clear why yet. Barely makes the news.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/02/21/mea ... -offaly-4/


Of course it didn't make the news. You can die outdoors in Ireland in the summer. Homeless people have a horrifically high death rate, for a variety of reasons, which tend to be attract varying degrees of publicity depending on which way the media wind is blowing.

The young fella involved here doesn't seem to have been in trouble with the law: what was his story? Why did he die outdoors on a February night? What bit him?

Full disclosure: I moved full-time to Bratislava 2 months ago. The major homeless problem here is because of the drink. It almost exclusively affects middle-aged men. Why is Ireland so different? Why can we not cope with this?


Looking at his Facebook page - it's not too difficult to speculate on what might have contributed to his problems.

https://www.facebook.com/conor.ohagan.372?fref=ts

His FB intro: "I live anywhere LOOK IN THE SKY AND TO THE STARS, THAT'S FREEDOM"


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:12 pm 
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Location: SthDub
GameBlame wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Clearly Erica thinks "the solution" is for Erica and everyone in a hotel to get a "forever home". She's right. That's the best solution for Erica. The old broken system working to house who it prefers.

Erica is on today's Ray D'arcy show at 3pm today to talk about her new home which has now moved into


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 Post subject: Re: Councils legally obliged to house the deliberately homel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:15 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
Erica is on today's Ray D'arcy show at 3pm today to talk about her new home which has now moved into
Are you me, so to speak, moriya? :D


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