Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 508 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:30 am 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Start a thread on it. This one is about Apollo House.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:46 am 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Housing Minister Simon Coveney has been called out for his fake housing completion numbers.

Image

Image

Alternative facts. Trump that.

Let's try and stick to the debate instead of attacking Lorcan Sirr and Karl Deeter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:16 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
*cough* - fake housing completion statistics - *cough* ^^^


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:32 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5578
I'm confused now. Genuine question; Are you pushing for state support for building on account of your profession or your political leanings?

We couldn't get accurate figures for housing completions 10 years ago so it shouldn't be a surprise that there aren't reliable statistics now but because we had an ongoing problem it undermines the implicit suggestion that the current Government are intentionally lying or lying to a greater extent than any previous government.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Posts: 2130
So the government who can't be trusted to count houses should be trusted to build a lot more?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:04 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 2900
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
Coles2 wrote:
Housing Minister Simon Coveney has been called out for his fake housing completion numbers.
Alternative facts. Trump that.
Let's try and stick to the debate instead of attacking Lorcan Sirr and Karl Deeter.


This was on Newstalk this morning. Very informative. Loads of massaging of figures happening.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:26 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Feb 9, 2010
Posts: 9019
It's probably worth pointing out that new MPRNs are about as a good a proxy as you are going to get for the 'creation' of dwellings. If a place has not had a power supply for two years+ and is then given a new one, it's a pretty good indication that a dwelling that was not being used has been added to the housing stock again. It's not so great of course if a property is being subdivided, as this does not always mean that new bedrooms/dwelling space have been created.

Because of the addition (and loss) of dwellings due to renovation and subdivision (and ruin/amalgamation), a very accurate count of new buildings would still be a very inaccurate count of the increase or decrease in housing stock.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:56 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 16954
Location: To the right of the decimal place
Barney Gumble wrote:
It's probably worth pointing out that new MPRNs are about as a good a proxy as you are going to get for the 'creation' of dwellings. If a place has not had a power supply for two years+ and is then given a new one, it's a pretty good indication that a dwelling that was not being used has been added to the housing stock again. It's not so great of course if a property is being subdivided, as this does not always mean that new bedrooms/dwelling space have been created.

Because of the addition (and loss) of dwellings due to renovation and subdivision (and ruin/amalgamation), a very accurate count of new buildings would still be a very inaccurate count of the increase or decrease in housing stock.


Yeah I got that impression too. Although technically its not a "completion", it's actually a better indication of housing being "brought on-stream".

This is not the government-bashing opportunity you've been looking for...

_________________
“If you're afraid - don't do it. If you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

"Do, or do not; there is no try" -- Yoda


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:16 pm 
Offline
Speculator

Joined: Apr 27, 2014
Posts: 420
I think the issue of using new MPRNs issued as a count of new residential units is overstated. A new MPRN is only needed after the property has been de-energised for more than two years. After this time, it can be reasonably counted as a new residential property or at least one brought back into the residential market.

The CSO may count this property as vacant.

If you take data from various sources such as:

2016 Census - EP009: Housing Stock and Vacant Dwellings 2016 by Electoral Division, CensusYear and Statistic
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire ... Language=0

2011 Census - CD402 Permanent Housing Units by Occupancy Status by Province County or City, CensusYear and Statistic
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire ... Language=0

2006 Census - C0674 Permanent Housing Units by Occupancy Status and Vacancy Rate by Province County or City, CensusYear and Statistic
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire ... Language=0

as well as:

Department of the Environment

http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/stati ... ompletions

Completions by type by area 2005-2014
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default ... 013_2.xlsx

Completions by type by area 2014 to date
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default ... te_13.xlsx

you get a consolidated view along the following lines:

Code:
Year              CSO     Dept Env YoY Dept Difference    Dept Env Number New  New Registrations      Net Loss      Net Loss %age
2016         2,022,895
2015                      2,022,000               8,000                                    12,666         4,666              0.23%
2014                      2,014,000               7,000                                    11,016         4,016              0.20%
2013                      2,007,000               4,000                  8,301              8,301         4,301              0.21%
2012                      2,003,000               4,000                  8,488              8,488         4,488              0.22%
2011         1,994,845    1,999,000               7,000                 10,480             10,480         3,480              0.17%
2010                      1,992,000              10,000                 14,602             14,602         4,602              0.23%
2009                      1,982,000              22,000                 26,420             26,420         4,420              0.22%
2008                      1,960,000              48,000                 51,324             51,724         3,724              0.19%
2007                      1,912,000              74,000                 77,627             78,027         4,027              0.21%
2006         1,769,613    1,838,000             105,000                 93,019             93,419       -11,581             -0.63%
2005                      1,733,000                                     80,557


The CSO only started counting dwellings consistently from 2006. Their counts are based on April of that year.

The Department of the Environment count from the end of December of the year. Any small difference can be explained by the 8 month gap in the years when they was a census.

There are also gaps in the various series.

The big items that jump out here are:

1. The CSO count of private dwellings in 2006 of 1,769,613 when compared with the Department of the Environment number of 1,838,000. This was the first year the CSO counted this information. But is still a big error, though probably one of classification.

2. The low net loss figures.

The numbers are still a bit of a mess.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:43 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Housebuilding figures are inflated, TDs told, - TheTimes.co.uk
Quote:
The number of new houses being built each year has been “artificially inflated”, the Oireachtas housing committee has been told.

The Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government reported a steady rise in housebuilding activity since 2013.

Critics have questioned the accuracy of the data, which is based on new ESB connections made during the year.

At the committee meeting on Wednesday Lorcan Sirr, a housing policy lecturer at Dublin Institute of Technology, said that the margin of error in the department’s figures was “certainly more” than a fifth.

“Connection or re-connection to the electricity grid is a very unreliable method of assessing levels of housebuilding,” Mr Sirr, who writes a column on housing for The Sunday Times, said.

“When different measures are used, for example stamp duty transactions and other market indicators, it can be reliably calculated that the numbers of new houses and apartments being built each year is about half of what the official ‘completion’ statistics suggest.”

Mr Sirr said that several factors contributed to the inaccuracy of the official statistics. One was that units that have been vacant for more than two years require a new connection to the electricity grid for safety reasons.

Mr Sirr said a mix of ghost estates and residential units in Nama that have been recently reconnected to the grid have been propping up the statistics.

“In effect, we are building far fewer houses than we think, perhaps just over 8,000 in 2016, which casts serious doubt over the government’s plan to build an average of 25,000 houses per annum between this year and 2021.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:02 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
'Inside Apollo House' documentary on now on TV3.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:09 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 5268
Location: SthDub
Hansard and Ogle taking their Appollo House story to Hollywood.....I can see a movie out of this!
Quote:
The Frames singer took part in an intimate interview with actor Jason Segel in LA, in support of The Ireland Funds America.
The Oscar winner performed hits like Falling Slowly, as he was joined on stage by How I Met Your Mother star Jason, who interviewed him about his life from a busker to an award-winner.
In the middle of his interview, Glen spoke about Apollo House and the homeless situation, telling the audience about how he wanted to change things in Ireland...
..."I thought the government would say, 'you know lads that's a great idea'... I thought there would be some understanding," he explained.
Glen then welcomed Brendan Ogle on stage, who he said was the force behind Apollo House.
Brendan told guests that he was "angry" with what Ireland had become.
"It's been a rough few months," Brendan admitted to the crowd.
"I'm just burning with anger...about the state of my country. I'm from a great place, Ireland's a great place...there's really great people working hard all over the world to promote our country.
"But there's more to it than that, there's two Irelands...there's the Ireland that's doing really, really well 'recovery Ireland'.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:16 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
That's great. The only way this crisis will be addressed is if the government are embarrassed into it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:17 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Feb 9, 2010
Posts: 9019
Brendan Ogle's self-promotion is nauseating.
Quote:
Glen then welcomed Brendan Ogle on stage, who he said was the force behind Apollo House.

This might come as a surprise to many of those involved.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:25 pm 
Offline
Nationalised

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 10995
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Barney Gumble wrote:
Brendan Ogle's self-promotion is nauseating.
You seem a bit obsessed about Brendan Ogle. Is it healthy to obsess about him?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 508 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to: