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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:58 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Has there been a single night in Dublin in the last 1,000 years where someone has not slept rough?

Are there not just some social problems so intractable that no amount of political will can solve them?


Almost certainly so.
The question is whether we have a reasonably effective and efficient way of managing them.

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Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:13 am 
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ChickenParmentier wrote:
...Meanwhile, around the corner, An Bord Pleanala, despite a recommendation from their own inspector refused planning permission for student accommodation to replace another awful building (Oisin House)...

An Taisce’s objection was based on:

Quote:
... would constitute a disorderly, incoherent form of development with an overscaled building disrupting the scale and balance of the street and adversely affecting the adjacent historic college campus in an important Conservation Area




FFS. When Trinity was set up in 1592 I doubt they intended to keep the whole place as a monument to 16th century architecture. They've been building on it ever since, and some of it ain't exactly pretty. If Dubin Corpo had taken the same attitude back then Trinity wouldn't even exist, as they'd never have granted permission to replace the "historic" 12th century Norman Priory of All Hallows.

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:42 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
werpen wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
I think it's a great stunt. I'm surprised it wasn't done years ago. Manned security is really expensive on vacant buildings. Patrols are lousy. There's loads of vacant property such as ground floor retail close to the city that has been vacant for a decade now.

Use it or lose it ! What could be more in tune with the mindset of loads of property pin posters ?

I agree. Walked up Wexford st today and countless vacant buildings. Slap a heafty site tax on the idler landlords. There are plenty of examples all over Dublin.
Crazy situation having families homeless while buildings and sites lie idle.
Good to see most people are worried about the landlords who leave sites idle though.


Yes and there's about 8 charity shops on that stretch - probably paying no commercial rates whatsoever


In the Netherlands (where space is at a premium!), any property that isn't being used and/or is being neglected is CPO-ed by the city and put to good use. Waste not want not!

BTW have worked in Oisin House (space was being rented by TCD as temp office space) - its lifts do work, there are kitchens and functioning loos, but the building as a whole is a bit poky, though the top floor where I was was a big open plan w/great views...

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:46 am 
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And speaking of political will to deal with the problem, am surprised the TD/landlord connection hasn't been mentioned in this latest development... or did I miss it?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ne ... 99892.html

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Elka wrote:
And speaking of political will to deal with the problem, am surprised the TD/landlord connection hasn't been mentioned in this latest development... or did I miss it?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ne ... 99892.html



Quote:
Wexford’s Mick Wallace has two properties rented in Wicklow.


How the hell does Mick Wallace, a self-confessed tax fraud (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mick-wallace-off-the-hook-after-14m-tax-dodge-26891291.html), get to hold on to 2 investment properties ?


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:16 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
Elka wrote:
And speaking of political will to deal with the problem, am surprised the TD/landlord connection hasn't been mentioned in this latest development... or did I miss it?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ne ... 99892.html



Quote:
Wexford’s Mick Wallace has two properties rented in Wicklow.


How the hell does Mick Wallace, a self-confessed tax fraud (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mick-wallace-off-the-hook-after-14m-tax-dodge-26891291.html), get to hold on to 2 investment properties ?


And now bankrupt tax fraud!

And by the way, why was it made possible for a bankrupt to be/remain a TD? What was the logic behind that idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:38 pm 
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Breaking the law appears to be ok with the Irish Times, as long as the cause is to their liking of course....guess which Opinion writer penned this :lol:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-m ... -1.2910571
Quote:
There’s a reason moments like Apollo House are happening. If there’s a vacant building owned by Nama (which actually means that it’s owned by us, the taxpayers and citizens of this country) that could be utilised to safely accommodate people, short-term or long-term, the people of Ireland are entitled to take it over. Why not? What possible moral objection could anyone have to that? It’s ours. People need a roof over their heads. This is of course messy and “unofficial”, but it’s not wrong. More power to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Elka wrote:

And by the way, why was it made possible for a bankrupt to be/remain a TD? What was the logic behind that idea?



That campaign was waged by none other than pinster bugbear Jillian Godsil.

" Law change will overturn ban on bankrupts running for Dail seats".
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/po ... 46856.html

Wonder who put her up to that challenge?

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Homeless should be allowed stay in Apollo House, says Zappone
Minister Zappone said she supported comments made by Fr Peter McVerry, who said the occupation was not the solution to the homeless crisis. However the Minister said she believed those residing there should be allowed to remain if no alternative accommodation can be found.


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:06 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
Breaking the law appears to be ok with the Irish Times, as long as the cause is to their liking of course....guess which Opinion writer penned this :lol:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-m ... -1.2910571
Quote:
There’s a reason moments like Apollo House are happening. If there’s a vacant building owned by Nama (which actually means that it’s owned by us, the taxpayers and citizens of this country) that could be utilised to safely accommodate people, short-term or long-term, the people of Ireland are entitled to take it over. Why not? What possible moral objection could anyone have to that? It’s ours. People need a roof over their heads. This is of course messy and “unofficial”, but it’s not wrong. More power to them.

Has anyone actually reported trespassing to the relevant authorities?

Maybe you should get down to your local Gardai station and get this shelter shut down in the name of protecting your rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:54 pm 
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catbear wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Breaking the law appears to be ok with the Irish Times.

Maybe you should get down to your local Gardai station and get this shelter shut down in the name of protecting your rights.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:19 pm 
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catbear wrote:
I have zero problems with long abandoned vacant property being used as temporary shelter when people are freezing to death on the streets. Prioritizing property rights over people gave us the conditions that created the famine.


Exactly. There was actually a thread on this site about vacant buildings on Wexford Street years ago and people still here now suggesting something should be done by somebody else years later....while nothing has changed.

I'm back in Dublin for the first time in four years and I'm struck by the amount of raggedy men walking around the place with their belongings on their back each morning. More than in many developing countries.

That's not to say that freeing up buildings alone will solve the problem as there will probably always be people who either by circumstance or by choice will exist beyond the reach of polite society. However, it would benefit the city and wider society if disused buildings within dense urban areas were put to use....surely it would also serve to make property more affordable?

However such a course would require the interests of the collective i.e.the common good, being afforded more weight than the interests of sectoral (connected) interests. It would also require a reimagining of sorts on the part of the legislators and judiciary in terms of the prioritisation of rights i.e. A Serious examination of the primacy afforded property rights over others would need to be factored into the legal and cultural interpretation of the issues around such matters.....but we've been here before, decades saying the same stuff....at least these guys have actually sought to do something, however cynical and media friendly it may ultimately prove to be....if nothing else they it might spark a debate as well as getting some unlucky people a continuous bed over then Christmas period.....

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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:

I'm back in Dublin for the first time in four years and I'm struck by the amount of raggedy men walking around the place with their belongings on their back each morning. More than in many developing countries.

If you think Dublin is bad it's nothing compared to what I'm seeing in English cities.

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Apollo House 'taken over' by Activists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:05 pm 
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catbear wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:

I'm back in Dublin for the first time in four years and I'm struck by the amount of raggedy men walking around the place with their belongings on their back each morning. More than in many developing countries.

If you think Dublin is bad it's nothing compared to what I'm seeing in English cities.


The homeless situation in Dublin is visibly nothing compared to what you see in the West End of London. That is not to say its a lesser problem or no less acute for those homeless but even allowing for London being a far larger global City, the problem seems far more apparent here. The same goes for Paris, Manchester and Liverpool.

By the way - why all the handwringing on the Homeless now over the last 2/3 years. With the exception of the more vocal charities (McVerry etc.), I don't recall this amount of coverage any time over the last 20 years. I doubt the situation is any more severe than it was in the late '80s. Of course that is not to say it doesn't deserve all the attention now.


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