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 Post subject: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:09 am 
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http://www.independent.ie/business/pers ... 72993.html

Quote:
Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas to lure people to small towns and villages



Cash grants for refurbishing old buildings in rural communities are to form a central plank of the Government's Action Plan for Rural Development, which is being brought before the Cabinet today.

The scheme is aimed at luring all house buyers, but specifically older people and first-time buyers, back into rural communities damaged by unemployment during the recession.

Young people buying houses in designated rural towns would be given cash grants to renovate their new homes along with the tax relief available under the first-time buyer scheme.

The renovation grant would also incentivise older people living alone in isolated parts of the country to move into town centres where more services are available. The cash incentive would allow older people to refurbish houses and make them more accessible for their later years.
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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:38 am 
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FTB's are going to need an Accountant , there are so many schemes out there now to keep track of.

Irish answer to everything...throw taxpayers money at it


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:55 am 
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Or you could stop allowing ribbon and one-off development.

Honestly, the people didn't all move 'above to Dublin', many just built McMansions 3km outside of the village and now go to the nearest town to use the shop since they're driving anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:53 am 
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jammyBastard wrote:
Or you could stop allowing ribbon and one-off development.

Honestly, the people didn't all move 'above to Dublin', many just built McMansions 3km outside of the village and now go to the nearest town to use the shop since they're driving anyway.

Yup. But rather than recognise this, we'll see another inept attempt to fix the wrong problem.

How many folks took advantage of the last, highly trumpeted renovation scheme in Cork City - was it about 4? Or was that the nationwide figure, I can't recall.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:00 am 
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I don't think grants/money will solve the problem of derelict properties. What we need to do is to remove the red tape involved in renovating these. But that's much harder to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:00 am 
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At a purely headline level, this isn't a bad idea. Banning ribbon development is the obvious solution, but everyone from outside the pale disagrees with me* and thinks that's just jackeens sticking their noses where they don't belong.

*small sample size, but probably approaching double figures.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:07 am 
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Just had a quick look back at what was posted about the earlier, failed 'Living City' initiative. I wonder will this scheme actually address any of the obvious issues that caused all the previous ones to fail?

Barney Gumble wrote:
Another failed intervention. Presumably there are people well paid to come up with this stuff in national and local government, yet loads of basic problems with the scheme were pointed out here as soon as details of the scheme were announced.

Either we are all brilliant or those in government are morons. I'd love to know how much all the work that went into framing this scheme cost.

From the IT article:
Quote:
10-year period
Owners can claim relief only for the years the house is their principal private residence. If the property is sold within the 10-year period, entitlement to the relief stops and the new owner will not be able to claim it. The scheme is also available to the owners of historic commercial buildings, who will be able to apply for capital allowances over a seven-year period on the refurbishment or conversion of a property. The amount of tax relief available under the commercial element of the incentive is capped at €200,000 for any individual project.
The council hoped the measure would reduce the vacancy levels in the city centre, particularly in the upper floors of buildings, often left empty when the ground floor was used as a shop.
“If we don’t grasp the Living City Initiative we are never going to grasp living in the city and reusing our buildings,” council conservation officer Nicki Matthews said.
The council has yet to complete a survey of the vacancy levels in the city, but surveys on Aungier Street indicate a likely upper floor vacancy rate of 40-60 per cent.
Predominantly vacant
“In the north Georgian core upper floors of buildings are predominantly vacant and empty. This is our opportunity – we have an amount of vacant buildings that could be used for homes in Dublin,” Ms Matthews said.
Dublin Civic Trust has said a cap of 210sq m on the floor area of eligible houses meant many of the houses in the designated area are excluded.
“This excludes the majority of Georgian housing in Dublin, and the very properties that need the incentive most, especially on the northside,” trust spokesman Graham Hickey said.

So they are looking principally for owner-occupiers who will redevelop inner city Georgian buildings - particularly the upper floors - and live there for a decade to actually benefit from the tax relief? Will these properties really be suited to young families? Shouldn't they have aimed the scheme at the type of people who would actually be very happy to live in city central locations without gardens or parks, namely young, unencumbered adults, students or workers?

So they have the wrong incentive structure, they are aiming it at the wrong people, it's very restricted geographically, it seems complex to take advantage of, and they are surprised that the uptake is so poor. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:51 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 3877
Barney Gumble wrote:
Just had a quick look back at what was posted about the earlier, failed 'Living City' initiative. I wonder will this scheme actually address any of the obvious issues that caused all the previous ones to fail?

Barney Gumble wrote:
Another failed intervention. Presumably there are people well paid to come up with this stuff in national and local government, yet loads of basic problems with the scheme were pointed out here as soon as details of the scheme were announced.

Either we are all brilliant or those in government are morons. I'd love to know how much all the work that went into framing this scheme cost.

From the IT article:
Quote:
10-year period
Owners can claim relief only for the years the house is their principal private residence. If the property is sold within the 10-year period, entitlement to the relief stops and the new owner will not be able to claim it. The scheme is also available to the owners of historic commercial buildings, who will be able to apply for capital allowances over a seven-year period on the refurbishment or conversion of a property. The amount of tax relief available under the commercial element of the incentive is capped at €200,000 for any individual project.
The council hoped the measure would reduce the vacancy levels in the city centre, particularly in the upper floors of buildings, often left empty when the ground floor was used as a shop.
“If we don’t grasp the Living City Initiative we are never going to grasp living in the city and reusing our buildings,” council conservation officer Nicki Matthews said.
The council has yet to complete a survey of the vacancy levels in the city, but surveys on Aungier Street indicate a likely upper floor vacancy rate of 40-60 per cent.
Predominantly vacant
“In the north Georgian core upper floors of buildings are predominantly vacant and empty. This is our opportunity – we have an amount of vacant buildings that could be used for homes in Dublin,” Ms Matthews said.
Dublin Civic Trust has said a cap of 210sq m on the floor area of eligible houses meant many of the houses in the designated area are excluded.
“This excludes the majority of Georgian housing in Dublin, and the very properties that need the incentive most, especially on the northside,” trust spokesman Graham Hickey said.

So they are looking principally for owner-occupiers who will redevelop inner city Georgian buildings - particularly the upper floors - and live there for a decade to actually benefit from the tax relief? Will these properties really be suited to young families? Shouldn't they have aimed the scheme at the type of people who would actually be very happy to live in city central locations without gardens or parks, namely young, unencumbered adults, students or workers?

So they have the wrong incentive structure, they are aiming it at the wrong people, it's very restricted geographically, it seems complex to take advantage of, and they are surprised that the uptake is so poor. :roll:


Very simple solution. Works in France. Very few empty upper stories in French towns or villages. Its called Taxe d'habitation. Its a tax payable on all *inhabitable* residences whether they are rented out or not. So if rented out payed by renter. If not rented out its payed by property owner. Its a non trivial sum, usually a couple of months rent p.a, so landlords try to keep all taxable property rented out. Landlords and property owners also pay a property tax. With essentially a double tax on vacant land. Plus taxes to make sure that agricultural land is sold on if not used productively.

See, a simple, practical, solution. Probability it will ever be introduced in Ireland. Nil.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Migrant

Joined: Jul 29, 2016
Posts: 3
Here's another potential solution to revitalizing rural areas. Follow the example of Spain and Portugal and grant residency to people who buy residential property. Spain (min. €500,000) and Portugal (min. €350,000) both offer a path to permanent residency to non-EEA nationals for purchasing a residential property. These programmes have revitalized the housing markets in both countries and have generated billions of Euros in foreign investment directly to local property owners as well increased revenues to the government in the form of transfer taxes, VAT, stamp duty, capital gains tax etc. People living in these homes invest thousands of Euros each year into local economies through daily living expenditures plus major purchases such as cars.

Buyers for these Spanish and Portuguese properties are typically Asians (mostly Chinese), Americans, and other non-EEA nationals who are retired and therefore do not require massive infrastructure investment to permit them to commute or otherwise do business in Ireland. They are required to have comprehensive private health care coverage and therefore will never be a burden on the Irish welfare system.

No one else seems to want these properties and the Irish government does not seem to have any good ideas.

If what some say are true, Ireland is getting set for another housing crash. I don't know if this is indeed true (I am an American currently living Stateside) but I know that the rural areas of Ireland are still in recession in many cases with stagnant population growth and property values. Such a crash could set these areas back decades more.

Another idea is to get local authorities to remove planning restrictions on new construction often limited to buyers with proven ties to the local area. This policy is antithetical to improving rural economic conditions and do absolutely nothing to improve the economies of these areas. In fact, property owners are hurt by these policies which prevent land from being sold at a premium price.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:21 pm 
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If you live in or near a small town in Ireland you need a car, if not two. So you probably want off-street parking. Pretty much no one wants to live on a busy road if they have a choice.

The problem is that a lot of main streets in rural Ireland are narrow, busy, have no designated parking for residents. See here: https://goo.gl/maps/4PeJRxLZRY52

The houses are old and generally have configurations with no en suites, tiny kitchens, poor insulation etc.

Meanwhile, two minutes out the road you can buy a 125sqm house built in the last 15 years with several bathrooms, parking spaces for two, reasonable heating. They are generally below build cost.

There is no way that families with market incomes will repopulate houses above the shop in rural towns.




The best idea would be to give local authorities serious legal powers and resources to buy up old properties and redevelop chunks at a time. The alternative it pretty much dereliction.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:28 pm 
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jammyBastard wrote:
Or you could stop allowing ribbon and one-off development.

Honestly, the people didn't all move 'above to Dublin', many just built McMansions 3km outside of the village and now go to the nearest town to use the shop since they're driving anyway.


people do exactly that (build one offs) because they prefer it to banning one offs and being stuffed in estates, banning ribbon development makes 100% sense and should have been enacted decades ago at least in some areas


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Joined: May 14, 2007
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Location: On the road to nowhere.
As a 'country person' i can tell you that the main driver of one off houses is the fact that they are cheaper. The land or site is free. Every penny after that goes into the house.
You can build a fine house in the country for the price of a semi d in many of the big towns. Dont get me started if the brother is a chippie or electrician etc. Price for everything tumble then.

Now the only way urban regen will beat self build is if it is cheaper. Most people in the country would rather be walking distance from the pub and shop if all else was equal.

Grants and tax back etc to incentivise rural towns over isolated sites is the answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

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Location: Bogtrotterland!
One possible solution would be to provide a road of serviced sites in close proximity to a regional centre, so people could build their "one-off" but in a planned and manageable location. Milton Keynes has a number of estates assigned for "individual builds", the local authority built the road and laid on the services, Electric, gas, phone, water & sewerage.
The plot buyer could build almost anything within the guidelines. Many small towns have a "dead spot" near the centre that could benefit from such ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:49 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
One possible solution would be to provide a road of serviced sites in close proximity to a regional centre, so people could build their "one-off" but in a planned and manageable location. Milton Keynes has a number of estates assigned for "individual builds", the local authority built the road and laid on the services, Electric, gas, phone, water & sewerage.
The plot buyer could build almost anything within the guidelines. Many small towns have a "dead spot" near the centre that could benefit from such ideas.

This is used quite a bit in France. I don't understand why it is not common practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Cash incentives to restore properties in rural areas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:50 pm 
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^^ I've seen that in Waterford. It worked very well.

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