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 Post subject: "60% borrowing to pay bills"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:06 am 
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http://www.thejournal.ie/household-bill ... 8-Jan2017/

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60% of Irish people borrow to pay their household bills
20% borrowed money from family and friends to pay their bills.


Failed banking systems and floors under crashed property markets are expensive purchases


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:19 am 
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I'm not sure that can be trusted. One of the items mentioned was overdraft. I increased my overdraft limit before Christmas just to be safe. I've got plenty of money elsewhere but I couldn't be bothered to move it to the current account especially when increasing my limit was only a matter of sending a mail to my bank representative.
I never actually used the overdraft facility but it was there.
This seems like an excuse for the company paying for the research to get their name mentioned in the media.


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:21 am 
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dipole wrote:
I'm not sure that can be trusted. One of the items mentioned was overdraft. I increased my overdraft limit before Christmas just to be safe. I've got plenty of money elsewhere but I couldn't be bothered to move it to the current account especially when increasing my limit was only a matter of sending a mail to my bank representative.
I never actually used the overdraft facility but it was there.
This seems like an excuse for the company paying for the research to get their name mentioned in the media.

I'm not sure it can be trusted either given household credit has been declining since the crash. So even if people are borrowing to pay bills, it is not permanent borrowings.

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"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:49 am 
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yoganmahew wrote:
dipole wrote:
I'm not sure that can be trusted. One of the items mentioned was overdraft. I increased my overdraft limit before Christmas just to be safe. I've got plenty of money elsewhere but I couldn't be bothered to move it to the current account especially when increasing my limit was only a matter of sending a mail to my bank representative.
I never actually used the overdraft facility but it was there.
This seems like an excuse for the company paying for the research to get their name mentioned in the media.

I'm not sure it can be trusted either given household credit has been declining since the crash. So even if people are borrowing to pay bills, it is not permanent borrowings.


Household credit is falling because people are paying off their mortgages quicker than the banks are willing (or able) to offer new ones.

Credit card & overdraft loans would be in lessor amounts than mortgages.

Perhaps banks are quicker at offering a higher interest-bearing credit card & overdraft rather than a low interest-bearing mortgage ?


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:56 am 
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Quote:
Less than a quarter said they didn’t have to resort to any of these measures in order to cover the cost of their bills last year.

We are expected to believe that 75% of people have outgoings that exceed their income?


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:38 am 
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I'd want to see the wording of the questions.

Our income more than adequately covers our expenditure, but we would regularly
1. Transfer money from our 'short term savings' to cover a large bill e.g. a March gas bill
2. Transfer money from our 'short term savings' to cover an unexpected bill e.g. vet
3. I would use my credit card freely to cover motor tax, insurance or servicing and clear it over a month or two
4. I keep certain expenses related to commuting on my credit card, to keep better track of my leftover free cash.

We routinely use free credit from a credit card, or savings, to smooth out non-recurring/irregular payments. We see the combination of 'short term savings' and joint account as two sides of a ledger, using the savings to ensure a balance, and each of us would use credit cards as one side of a ledger with some personal 'savings', and we keep a separate 'long term savings' account.

However, if asked:
- Have you used a credit card or other borrowings in the last 6 months to pay a household bill
- Have you used savings in the last 6 months to pay a household bill

Each of us would answer yes, but it would not be a reflection in any way on our ability to meet bills - we are quite comfortable - but rather we use these mechanisms, along with multiple bank accounts, to keep a fine separation between month to month expenses, non recurring expenses etc, so that we can see at a glance what discretionary income we have at any point in time in the month, and so that we don't have to use discretionary income for non recurring expenses (they are built into our 'short term savings' plans).


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:41 pm 
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while I echo the sentiments around how the question was phrased etc and jammyBastard has put a lot of it well, there is no denying that the cost of living in Dublin is fast approaching "take the piss" levels.

My username is out of date so I say that as someone paying a mortgage - it must be even worse for those subject to the vagaries of the rental market.

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Borrowers seeking mortgages have had to resort to saving deposits, forcing many to sit by and watch house prices tumble without being able to do anything about it. Sunday Independent - June 1 2008

I know a lot of them, like [Jimmy] Flynn, [Noel] O’Flaherty and the Baileys. You meet the Baileys at Croke Park every time you go there. You can’t avoid getting a slap on the back going in from them. Most of these guys lost their shirt. I feel sorry for them - Bertie Ahern


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:16 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
yoganmahew wrote:
So even if people are borrowing to pay bills, it is not permanent borrowings.


Household credit is falling because people are paying off their mortgages quicker than the banks are willing (or able) to offer new ones.

Credit card & overdraft loans would be in lessor amounts than mortgages.

Perhaps banks are quicker at offering a higher interest-bearing credit card & overdraft rather than a low interest-bearing mortgage ?

Even credit card and overdraft loans are still falling, or rather, revolving credit (less than 1 year duration) in general:
https://www.centralbank.ie/publications ... 2016H2.pdf
See page 23.

Still, longer-term short-term debt is rising, but I'd be surprised if that was related to household bills (there's no evidence that it is, and it usually isn't).

Like jammy, I use my credit card to pay many bills, and pay it off each month.

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"It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good."

So long and thanks for all the fish.


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:01 am 
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The ICLU used to publish similar research with very dubiously framed questions which showed the majority of the population was in penury or somewhat.


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 Post subject: Re: 60% borrowing to pay bills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:45 am 
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Could you provide some examples so we can judge for ourselves, thanks.


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