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Given only two choices I say
I want Simon Coveney ! 21%  21%  [ 15 ]
I want Leo Varadkar ! 79%  79%  [ 56 ]
Total votes : 71
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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:22 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
Let's not forget Paschal Donohoe. I like the cut of his jib.


One word. Statesman :P

Which way did you vote in the restricted ballot for Taoiseach ?


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:26 am 
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Also, there should really be an "ugh, neither" option. Neither are exactly the most inspiring choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:34 am 
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theschmuck wrote:
There's no way Middle-Ireland will accept a single gay man with an "active" social life as Taoiseach, despite the media's narrative of this suddenly becoming a magic rainbow land. If he had a long-term partner/spouse that people got used to first I could see it happening in 5 or 10 years-a majority of the public would even take them to heart.


Plus 1 . I really like the guy but rural eire will not accept him at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:42 am 
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theschmuck wrote:
There's no way Middle-Ireland will accept a single gay man with an "active" social life as Taoiseach, despite the media's narrative of this suddenly becoming a magic rainbow land. If he had a long-term partner/spouse that people got used to first I could see it happening in 5 or 10 years-a majority of the public would even take them to heart.


Not sure what you are getting at here but the fella I saw him with in September was the same guy I saw him with a few weeks ago. You should really get out a bit more yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:49 am 
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bart wrote:
theschmuck wrote:
There's no way Middle-Ireland will accept a single gay man with an "active" social life as Taoiseach, despite the media's narrative of this suddenly becoming a magic rainbow land. If he had a long-term partner/spouse that people got used to first I could see it happening in 5 or 10 years-a majority of the public would even take them to heart.


Not sure what you are getting at here but the fella I saw him with in September was the same guy I saw him with a few weeks ago. You should really get out a bit more yourself.


The question would be - how often do they get out and about


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:56 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
bart wrote:
theschmuck wrote:
There's no way Middle-Ireland will accept a single gay man with an "active" social life as Taoiseach, despite the media's narrative of this suddenly becoming a magic rainbow land. If he had a long-term partner/spouse that people got used to first I could see it happening in 5 or 10 years-a majority of the public would even take them to heart.


Not sure what you are getting at here but the fella I saw him with in September was the same guy I saw him with a few weeks ago. You should really get out a bit more yourself.


The question would be - how often do they get out and about


Not sure you can get much more out and about than a trip to Croke Park - AI final in September - and South William Street in January. Incidentally, judging from the jersey he was wearing in September, while the next Taoiseach won't be from Mayo, his consort will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:01 am 
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I think people are perhaps jumping to the conclusion that all gay men are promiscuous (straight men, naturally, are paragons of virtue). We get this a lot. Statistically, it doesn't hold up for the average gay man; while the mean number of partners is substantially higher than straights in most studies, the median tends to be pretty close. There's a small minority of gay men who are very promiscuous (as there is of straight men, but even smaller minority there), but the average gay man is not notably more promiscuous. There's also some evidence that this is declining with time, as being gay becomes more acceptable and gay people can have non-clandestine relationships.

But the popular prejudice does hang around, largely unexamined. It's just one of those things that people believe (reinforced to some extent by the depiction of gay people in the media).


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:12 am 
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It will be a coronation for Leo, if the party was split (in a tight race between Varadkar and Coveney) then Pascal would have a chance as a compromise candidate. But not this time.

The problem with Varadkar is that he will inevitably lose FG seats west of a line from Mullingar to Waterford just like Enda could not carry much of Dublin. Like it or not that's half the population. He has very little hard appeal outside Dublin and will show his utter inability to communicate with other than Dublin media in very short order.

His choice of Tánaiste is key, Coveney would be the obvious one. If he picks Harris then I smell electoral disaster in the near future once the initial opinion poll bounce is over. He'd nearly get away with Pascal as Tánaiste, who offends nobody.

Harris, unusually, is coping rather well with Health and is best left there for a while....it's putting manners on the horrible little cunt anyway and that political humility is no bad thing for Harris.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:38 am 
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I wouldn't say media prejudice; I doubt it's intentional as such. It's just that gay people on tv are depicted a certain way. Until very recently, of course, they weren't depicted at all, except as Mr Humphreys and similar. Now they're depicted as either very, very boring, or extremely promiscuous.

And some gay people are extremely promiscuous, as our some straight people, but in both cases it's a small minority. The difference is that the very promiscuous cohort are more likely to have more partners if they're gay, particularly in older age cohorts (which may just be an opportunity thing; promiscuous straight men have fewer opportunities in their 50s and 60s, generally.) But in both cases you're talking about small minorities of the populations who are very promiscuous; it's just a matter of degree.

Ultimately, it makes no more sense to assume that an arbitrary gay person is promiscuous than to assume a straight person is. If the gay person is very promiscuous, then they are statistically likely to have had more partners than the very promiscuous straight person, but that's it. Either would of course be a problem for a politician.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:55 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
Let's not forget Paschal Donohoe. I like the cut of his jib.


One word. Statesman :P

Which way did you vote in the restricted ballot for Taoiseach ?
I spoiled my vote.

I prefer Varadkar, but he won't be Taoiseach.

edit: Paschal Donohoe has just bowed out of the contest. Something about an unfinished Lego pirate ship.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:17 am 
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Classic turd sandwich or douche bag scenario. If I had to choose it'd be Leo

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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:06 am 
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2Pack wrote:
The problem with Varadkar is that he will inevitably lose FG seats west of a line from Mullingar to Waterford just like Enda could not carry much of Dublin. Like it or not that's half the population. He has very little hard appeal outside Dublin and will show his utter inability to communicate with other than Dublin media in very short order.

You are correct it will be a coronation imho. Coveney has zero charisma and FF's dislike/fear of Varadkar is making him a hero with grassroots FGers.

I don't know if you are right about the line west of Mullingar. Varadkar has focused on connecting with regional TDs recently. I think he will be open to their advice for consolidating the FG heartland and won't do anything which would stop an FGer from voting for their local man. Also, he may bring in a few extra from outside the core which Coveney and Donohoe are unlikely to do.

There is a significant risk for FF that one of its Councillors or TDs coming out with any quips about Varadkar would likely seriously backfire on FF. People who are in favour of equality are far more likely to get animated about these things than those holding traditional prejudices.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:33 am 
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I suppose Varadkar could get the job for a while to lead Fine Gael into their nuclear winter phase in opposition. As soon as there is real power at stake Coveney will take over. Donohoe has probably played it smart by putting himself in the kingmaker position which might assure him a decent seat at the table (Finance?). Hat-tip to Michael O'Regan for this suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:40 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
Let's not forget Paschal Donohoe. I like the cut of his jib.

An idle thought... who was the last Taoiseach who didn't leave office in disgrace?


John Bruton? If he had had more interest in the North he would have won re-election handy enough.

Politics is a bitch of a job, you can either try and do things your way and meet massive resistance (Reynolds), or just go in, and be a steady as she goes type of leader (Ahern, Kenny). Ultimately the job is about finding the right balance between various interest groups to ensure you don't lose your seat. The problem with most political systems is that they're essentially configured to resist change.

Both candidates would be superior to Kenny. Kenny's problem was not having any clear vision, and lacking any real intellect. While FF & FG were always fairly close policy wise, the distinction between them all but vanished under Enda.

Coveney is the safe boring choice, he will continue to operate FG as Kenny did, and won't make any real changes. FG would suffer badly at the next election if he stays.

Varadkar is the interesting choice. He does have the ability to speak without resorting to soundbites, and he does appear to have a vision for the country. He oversaw the department of Health without any major scandals or incidents, so he does strike me as the kind of guy that will appeal to the wider electorate who want something different to the usual politicians we have in the country. He speaks his mind and isn't afraid to call it as he sees it which is refreshing.

I would have backed FitzGerald, but she's damaged over the McCabe incident.

Definitely Leo.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll - The Greater Man / The Lesser Evil - Leo or Covene
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:50 am 
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mortgageboy wrote:
theschmuck wrote:
There's no way Middle-Ireland will accept a single gay man with an "active" social life as Taoiseach, despite the media's narrative of this suddenly becoming a magic rainbow land. If he had a long-term partner/spouse that people got used to first I could see it happening in 5 or 10 years-a majority of the public would even take them to heart.


Why the quotes around "active"? Is he entitled to a sex-life? I think you're far behind the curve with regard to attitudes in Ireland.


attitudes in Ireland and attitudes in Ireland of those that vote are not the same thing. Personally I think he is smug but the right wing leanings are a good thing IMO.


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