'That promissory note could literally be torn up'

BoyRacer · **Joined:** Jul 26, 2009 **Posts:** 10091

'That promissory note could literally be torn up' - Peter Matthews -> http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 31903.html

Quote:

The last government agreed that the State should pay €31bn to IBRC (formerly Anglo and Irish Nationwide) over a 13-year schedule ending in 2025. The first payment of €3.1bn was made in March 2011. The next payment is due on March 31.

If the European Union and the European Central Bank force us to make this payment, it would amount to increasing the totally unjustified, odious debt burden on the people of Ireland.

How is it unjustified? How is it odious?

Loan losses that occurred in the Irish banks following the financial collapse in 2008 were calculated in March 2011 at €75bn. In the 12 months since then it is becoming increasingly apparent that mortgage loan losses will get progressively worse.

Evidence is mounting that the total loan losses in Ireland could rise towards €100bn.

Throughout 2008 and 2009 there was a slow motion run and controlled implosion of the Irish banking system. In response, the ECB advanced massive loans to the Irish banks and in turn the Central Bank of Ireland responded by providing Exceptional Liquidity Assistance (ELA) to the Irish banks.

there is more

johnnyone234 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:02 pm

peter matthews speaking some sense, i can see why he not in the cabinet

Spinnaker · **Joined:** Mar 1, 2010 **Posts:** 1192

johnnyone234 wrote:

peter matthews speaking some sense, i can see why he not in the cabinet

In my opinion, I believe Mr. Mathews is a hard working man with impeccable integrity, remember his outstanding performance to the Dail Finance Committee when the likes of Frank Fahy illustrated just how much he [Frank Fahy - Fianna Fail] did not understand.

That second hyperlink kicks off at 4:49 into the clip.

johnnyone234 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Spinnaker wrote:

johnnyone234 wrote:

peter matthews speaking some sense, i can see why he not in the cabinet

In my opinion, I believe Mr. Mathews is a hard working man with impeccable integrity, remember his outstanding performance to the Dail Finance Committee when the likes of Frank Fahy illustrated just how much he [Frank Fahy - Fianna Fail] did not understand.

i was being sarcastic

Puck may be Famous · **Joined:** May 3, 2008 **Posts:** 2040

I certainly have a lot of time for Matthews. However I wish he would stick to the banking stuff and not spend his time waving rosary beads around on behalf of opus dei or whoever.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 10353.html

Fooled by randomness · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:06 pm

There was a Pin thread some time ago that delved into the ELA question and something similar to the line Matthews is proposing here emerged as an idea.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35356&hilit=ELA+money+printing&start=120

It's an interesting idea and certainly one worth exploiting as we come closer to defaulting overall. However, it requires a political leadership with a lot more balls and brains than the current incumbents. Ironically, you need a Collins, a Haughey or a Dev to pull this kind of trick off. At least Matthews will embarrass the apparatchiks.

BlameGame · **Joined:** Jun 21, 2010 **Posts:** 2959

Puck may be Famous wrote:

I certainly have a lot of time for Matthews. However I wish he would stick to the banking stuff and not spend his time waving rosary beads around on behalf of opus dei or whoever.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 10353.html

It's a tough one to say who's madder

Quote:

One of the most surreal moments saw TD Peter Mathews brandish a set of rosary beads at the "secularist members of the party". The meeting became so heated that senior ministers Michael Noonan and James Reilly had to intervene to calm the mood.

Mr Noonan stressed "Enda's credentials as a sound Catholic" and at one point claimed that "he is a better Catholic than myself".

Quote:

Dublin Labour TD Aodhan O Riordain yesterday apologised for his apparent support of a proposal that senior public servants be screened to ensure they do not show "inappropriate deference to the Catholic Church".

He claimed the proposal came from within his constituency organisation and he did not read it before submitting it for inclusion at the party's upcoming conference. His apparent support for such a proposal drew the ire of party colleagues.

namascama · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:35 pm

Mortgage loan losses will get progressively worse once people see others getting write offs/write downs with damn all consequences. The precedent was set by nama and now look where we are.

This is a votex with the economy disappearing down the drain. It has to be put to a stop.

ragingbear · **Posted:** Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:58 pm

Fooled by randomness wrote:

It's an interesting idea and certainly one worth exploiting as we come closer to defaulting overall. However, it requires a political leadership with a lot more balls and brains than the current incumbents. Ironically, you need a Collins, a Haughey or a Dev to pull this kind of trick off. At least Matthews will embarrass the apparatchiks.

It's drivel - they can't just write it off. Why would anyone else in the eurozone agree to this? Otherwise why stop at this, or even the whole €75bn - why not magic a €1tn or two into existence - solve ALL the problems.

roc · **Joined:** Aug 22, 2008 **Posts:** 2855

ragingbear wrote:

Fooled by randomness wrote:

It's an interesting idea and certainly one worth exploiting as we come closer to defaulting overall. However, it requires a political leadership with a lot more balls and brains than the current incumbents. Ironically, you need a Collins, a Haughey or a Dev to pull this kind of trick off. At least Matthews will embarrass the apparatchiks.

It's drivel - they can't just write it off. Why would anyone else in the eurozone agree to this? Otherwise why stop at this, or even the whole €75bn - why not magic a €1tn or two into existence - solve ALL the problems.

Because the existence of the debt is useful as a 'stick' or 'tool' to enforce retrenchment and optimisation of productive habits, and corresponding standard of living appropriate to the country's real productive capacity etc.

Once the needed equilibrium is achieved, the debt can indeed gradually be 'magicked' away. No problemo - http://www.missouriwestern.edu/orgs/pol ... 31-pdf.pdf

johnnyone234 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:20 pm

ragingbear wrote:

Fooled by randomness wrote:

It's an interesting idea and certainly one worth exploiting as we come closer to defaulting overall. However, it requires a political leadership with a lot more balls and brains than the current incumbents. Ironically, you need a Collins, a Haughey or a Dev to pull this kind of trick off. At least Matthews will embarrass the apparatchiks.

It's drivel - they can't just write it off. Why would anyone else in the eurozone agree to this? Otherwise why stop at this, or even the whole €75bn - why not magic a €1tn or two into existence - solve ALL the problems.

we can once we have permission from the ECB
why else would the government be begging them to allow it
if you read the article the leg work has been done by Karl Whelan, Brian Lucey and Dr Stephen Kinsella. More on www.irisheconomy.ie

anewdawn · **Joined:** Jan 7, 2012 **Posts:** 85

ragingbear wrote:

Fooled by randomness wrote:

It's an interesting idea and certainly one worth exploiting as we come closer to defaulting overall. However, it requires a political leadership with a lot more balls and brains than the current incumbents. Ironically, you need a Collins, a Haughey or a Dev to pull this kind of trick off. At least Matthews will embarrass the apparatchiks.

It's drivel - they can't just write it off. Why would anyone else in the eurozone agree to this? Otherwise why stop at this, or even the whole €75bn - why not magic a €1tn or two into existence - solve ALL the problems.

What would be wrong with that? It's exactly what the LTRO is doing, gross, albeit limited for three years. . Seriously?

dolanbaker · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:59 pm

Quote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0302/bailout.html
The International Monetary Fund says it is urging the European Union and the European Central Bank to restructure the Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes.

It said such a restructuring would improve Ireland's debt sustainability, and help the country return to market funding next year.

IMF Deputy Mission Chief to Ireland Craig Beaumont said that because of market uncertainty surrounding the eurozone and Ireland's debt dynamics, the IMF was encouraging the EU to "proactively take steps to re-enforce the prospects of Ireland gaining adequate market access in 2013".

Mr Beaumont confirmed that this meant a restructuring of the promissory note arrangement.

What can't be paid, won't be paid!

Negative Covenant · **Joined:** Mar 4, 2009 **Posts:** 1049

Whatever about extending the term of the promissory notes and loading interest repayments towards the back end, we surely cannot just tear them up.

That would mean that our central bank could print money to pay off the debtors of our banks while others were not allowed to do so. I don't like banks, and I don't like socialising lossess but it does not mean we can steal form the rest of the EZ.

Imagine if Sarkozy, the insidious little pup that he is, decided he was going to get his central bank to give €30bn which he decided to create out of nothing to the French banks? Or if the Greeks told us that they had a solution to their fiscal crisis which could be achieved by their central bank loaning their government €200bn and then writing off the debt the next day?

Sounds like cobblers to me.

AWAAF · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Negative Covenant wrote:

Whatever about extending the term of the promissory notes and loading interest repayments towards the back end, we surely cannot just tear them up.

That would mean that our central bank could print money to pay off the debtors of our banks while others were not allowed to do so. I don't like banks, and I don't like socialising lossess but it does not mean we can steal form the rest of the EZ.

Imagine if Sarkozy, the insidious little pup that he is, decided he was going to get his central bank to give €30bn which he decided to create out of nothing to the French banks? Or if the Greeks told us that they had a solution to their fiscal crisis which could be achieved by their central bank loaning their government €200bn and then writing off the debt the next day?

Sounds like cobblers to me.

Is it not just like there is QE happening by the backdoor in Euro-zone in any case. This would just be part of that flow. It is not stealing any more than any other type of QE is i.e. it's pretty much 100% stealing.

'That promissory note could literally be torn up'

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