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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:52 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 11:04 pm 
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Let me repeat myself:

metalmike wrote:
If you allow yourself to be a beneficiary of the public purse - as Mr O'Brien was when debts to companies that he was involved in were written off using taxpayers money - then I'm afraid ALL of your affairs must be opened to public scrutiny. Otherwise how are we to tell whether a part of the money received (as debt written off) was paid back to those who made the decision to grant the writeoff. This is not to suggest that this was the case - but it becomes a legitimate speculation if you seek to deny full knowledge of your affairs - a situation that would probably offend Mr OBrien even more. Failure to allow this scrutiny will also make it impossible for any government to grant him, or any of his companies, contracts from the government purse, without raising another wave of public suspicion, reinforced by his reaction in this case.

Maybe Mr O'Brien doesn't understand this - but I'm sure the courts will make sure that he does as to do so would be to deny public scrutiny of public expenditure and leave the decision open to a constitutional test.


I made this statement on a standalone basis with no reference to Mr OBriens previous (alleged) behaviour. I don't think it is relevant.

This decision needs to be challenged.


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:39 am 
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metalmike wrote:
Let me repeat myself:

metalmike wrote:
If you allow yourself to be a beneficiary of the public purse - as Mr O'Brien was when debts to companies that he was involved in were written off using taxpayers money - then I'm afraid ALL of your affairs must be opened to public scrutiny. Otherwise how are we to tell whether a part of the money received (as debt written off) was paid back to those who made the decision to grant the writeoff. This is not to suggest that this was the case - but it becomes a legitimate speculation if you seek to deny full knowledge of your affairs - a situation that would probably offend Mr OBrien even more. Failure to allow this scrutiny will also make it impossible for any government to grant him, or any of his companies, contracts from the government purse, without raising another wave of public suspicion, reinforced by his reaction in this case.

Maybe Mr O'Brien doesn't understand this - but I'm sure the courts will make sure that he does as to do so would be to deny public scrutiny of public expenditure and leave the decision open to a constitutional test.


I made this statement on a standalone basis with no reference to Mr OBriens previous (alleged) behaviour. I don't think it is relevant.

This decision needs to be challenged.

Right and likewise when you receive large public tender contracts (even small contracts to be honest). The country has a history of corruption between HPPs and agencies of the state. The suspicion is that there is still a level of back-slapping that goes on. This is not begrudgery, I mean, who could begrude someone becoming a billionaire on the back of a government contract?

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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:39 am 
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Mantissa wrote:
Quote:
Lawyers for Mr O'Brien said the disclosure would make other financial institutions unwilling to deal with him and damage him commercially in a way he would never be able to prove.


Interesting.


But shouldn't they have phrased this differently - that statement by his own lawyers sounds very damaging and in it's vagueness allows for all sorts of worst case scenarios to form in the mind of the suspicious.


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:06 pm 
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pm1977 wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Quote:
Lawyers for Mr O'Brien said the disclosure would make other financial institutions unwilling to deal with him and damage him commercially in a way he would never be able to prove.


Interesting.


But shouldn't they have phrased this differently - that statement by his own lawyers sounds very damaging and in it's vagueness allows for all sorts of worst case scenarios to form in the mind of the suspicious.


Depends on the reporting of the context of what was being expressed.

Would be entirely reasonable to be concerned about the ability of anyone to go to any third party to do a transaction when the threat of publication of private business would make the party concerned about dealing with such an individual. No DOB fan but believe that RTE are wrong and the way that this particular article was composed as potentially defamatory.

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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:40 pm 
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I already posted this in the Newspapers threard but it's worth posting here too. Broadsheet has gone rogue and published statements made by Catherine Murphy in the Dail today in spite of legal threats from DOB. http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/05/28/red ... rest-rate/

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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:44 pm 
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This is some country....a TD talks in the Dail and it cant be reported.
Journal.ie pulled their story from earlier, rte, IT, Indo all dancing around it. Everyone on politics.ie alluding to some of the figures in question, but none can say it outright.

And all because a Maltese citizen has an army of legal heads ready to go to war in Ireland. Fook him


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:47 pm 
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So it seems a certain wealthy individual was paying 1% interest on a 500 million euro loan, rather than the 7.5% that might have been expected, and the story has been hushed up due to an injunction granted by an FG appointed judge. You couldn't make this up. I'm not saying that FG are complicit in this, but they've certainly engineered it so that it looks that way to the man on the street.


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:11 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
This is some country....a TD talks in the Dail and it cant be reported.
Journal.ie pulled their story from earlier, rte, IT, Indo all dancing around it. Everyone on politics.ie alluding to some of the figures in question, but none can say it outright.

And all because a Maltese citizen has an army of legal heads ready to go to war in Ireland. Fook him


Jesus wept, a TD talks in the dail? Really? How about a TD abuses Dail Privilege to exposure confidential private information about a private citizen? Nah, you don't like the guy involved so its fair game to trample on his rights.

Dail Privilege is a joke nowadays. Between Alan Shatter, McDonald and now we add Catherine Murphy to the list.

Politics.ie is a fair reflection of the highbrow nature of irish political & economic discussion. A support group for trolls, conspiracy theorists, the never-do-wells with chips on their shoulders and party activists. Shame, as 4 years ago it was a decent website.


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:19 pm 
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Away with ya

A private citizen of Malta, who appears to have gotten an almighty sweet rate on his loans from a State bank and you don't think that's newsworthy...your some cowboy!

Good job you weren't around when O'Malley named Cahill in the Dail all those years ago. You'd have had a fit. Or do you just come out to bat for the Tax Dodger


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:21 pm 
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It's on broadsheet.ie

I remember at the time he was under a fair bit of pressure because, when you look at his entire corporate body, he's massively leveraged.

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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:34 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
Away with ya

A private citizen of Malta, who appears to have gotten an almighty sweet rate on his loans from a State bank and you don't think that's newsworthy...your some cowboy!

Good job you weren't around when O'Malley named Cahill in the Dail all those years ago. You'd have had a fit. Or do you just come out to bat for the Tax Dodger


I find that part hilarious. She'd be up in arms if some of the INBS mortgages transferred to IBRC were charged 7.5%. I'd love to know where she got that figure from and I'd love to know if the 1% she cites is margin or all-in.

So your moral compass tells you that because loads of other politicians abused dail privilege previously its grand? Regardless, your reference is probably a little before my time. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:14 am 
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Andy wrote:
I find that part hilarious. She'd be up in arms if some of the INBS mortgages transferred to IBRC were charged 7.5%. I'd love to know where she got that figure from and I'd love to know if the 1% she cites is margin or all-in.

So your moral compass tells you that because loads of other politicians abused dail privilege previously its grand? Regardless, your reference is probably a little before my time. :lol:


So if it's all-in then you accept there's an issue?
Or will you try to wriggle out then too?

And you think that his term extension and rate review not going to credit committee (on a c. €500mln facility) is not suspicious and worthy of political investigation, considering the bank was a state asset (liability) at that time?

_________________
Profits = Investment – Household Savings – Government Savings – Foreign Savings + Dividends

(i.e. company profits are directly fed, in part, by government deficits)

BANKS DON'T LEND RESERVES
As confirmed by the Bank of England


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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:37 am 
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FreeFallin wrote:
This is some country....a TD talks in the Dail and it cant be reported.
Journal.ie pulled their story from earlier, rte, IT, Indo all dancing around it. Everyone on politics.ie alluding to some of the figures in question, but none can say it outright.

And all because a Maltese citizen has an army of legal heads ready to go to war in Ireland. Fook him


I thought there was absolute privilege when reporting on Dail proceedings?

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 Post subject: Re: Great & good aka High Profile Persons (HPP) debtor revie
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:09 am 
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Posts: 1106
Daniel Plainview wrote:
Andy wrote:
I find that part hilarious. She'd be up in arms if some of the INBS mortgages transferred to IBRC were charged 7.5%. I'd love to know where she got that figure from and I'd love to know if the 1% she cites is margin or all-in.

So your moral compass tells you that because loads of other politicians abused dail privilege previously its grand? Regardless, your reference is probably a little before my time. :lol:


So if it's all-in then you accept there's an issue?
Or will you try to wriggle out then too?

And you think that his term extension and rate review not going to credit committee (on a c. €500mln facility) is not suspicious and worthy of political investigation, considering the bank was a state asset (liability) at that time?


What have I tried to wriggle out of? Please answer this.

if it's all-in then it was badly priced.
Re loan committee - Mike Ansley has subsequently implied that all transactions did go to loan committee - suitably worded as he'S precluded from discussing individual borrowers. Who do you believe?

Again, Similar to the sale of siteserv, a breach of practice, if material, is for ibrc to answer, not the borrower. Murphy rejects the idea she is electioneering, yet why has she brought the specific borrowers name into the public domain? Why not "Borrower A"?

I still fail to see where the 7% comes from. If the loan expired it would've incurred interest as was plus the default rate - most likely 2.5% (Default rate that is).


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