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 Post subject: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €450m
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:30 pm 
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NAMA sells portfolio with €1.5 billion face value to US firm for €450m - -> https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0 ... -for-450m/

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The National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) has sold a portfolio of loans, that were originally valued at €1.5 billion, for €450m to US investment firm Colony Capital.
The State agency was paid for the assets today.
The portfolio comprises loans linked to developers and investors Paddy Kelly, John Flynn, and the McCormack family, who owned property investment group Alanis.
In a second deal, also completed today, NAMA sold Project Gem to US vulture fund Cerberus.
The portfolio had a face value of €3 billion, however, it has not been disclosed how much Cerberus paid for the assets.

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:45 pm 
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BoyRacer wrote:
NAMA sells portfolio with €1.5 billion face value to US firm for €450m - -> https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0 ... -for-450m/

Quote:
The National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) has sold a portfolio of loans, that were originally valued at €1.5 billion, for €450m to US investment firm Colony Capital.
The State agency was paid for the assets today.
The portfolio comprises loans linked to developers and investors Paddy Kelly, John Flynn, and the McCormack family, who owned property investment group Alanis.
In a second deal, also completed today, NAMA sold Project Gem to US vulture fund Cerberus.
The portfolio had a face value of €3 billion, however, it has not been disclosed how much Cerberus paid for the assets.

there is more


Articles like this - which fail to mention that Nama paid a substantial discount to par for these assets - are really poor.


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:47 am 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
BoyRacer wrote:
NAMA sells portfolio with €1.5 billion face value to US firm for €450m - -> https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0 ... -for-450m/

Quote:
The National Asset Management Agency (NAMA) has sold a portfolio of loans, that were originally valued at €1.5 billion, for €450m to US investment firm Colony Capital.
The State agency was paid for the assets today.
The portfolio comprises loans linked to developers and investors Paddy Kelly, John Flynn, and the McCormack family, who owned property investment group Alanis.
In a second deal, also completed today, NAMA sold Project Gem to US vulture fund Cerberus.
The portfolio had a face value of €3 billion, however, it has not been disclosed how much Cerberus paid for the assets.

there is more


Articles like this - which fail to mention that Nama paid a substantial discount to par for these assets - are really poor.


Not at all. There should be more of them. They make a mockery of Nama's rhetoric, particularly Frank Daly's. 'We'll chase every penny' 'it's all due and owing IN FULL'
Also given we were on the other side of the transaction in what they paid for them (bailing out domestic banks) spending any time dwelling on 'what they paid for them' is kinda asinine


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:31 am 
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In what what does this make a mockery of that? Do you have some reason to believe this bundle of loans was sold for below market price?

If something is being sold at 30% of par in today's market, is it not more likely that the quality of the underlying loans is just really low?

For example, let's say a bank lent €50m to a developer in 2007 to buy some land and then the developer went out of business. Land prices subsequently fell by 90% but have recovered somewhat. If Nama could now sell that loan for only a 70% discount, they could potentially be receiving 3x the value that was applied to the loan when it was moved into NAMA.


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:42 am 
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Carson wrote:
In what what does this make a mockery of that? Do you have some reason to believe this bundle of loans was sold for below market price?

If something is being sold at 30% of par in today's market, is it not more likely that the quality of the underlying loans is just really low?

For example, let's say a bank lent €50m to a developer in 2007 to buy some land and then the developer went out of business. Land prices subsequently fell by 90% but have recovered somewhat. If Nama could now sell that loan for only a 70% discount, they could potentially be receiving 3x the value that was applied to the loan when it was moved into NAMA.


I really dont think prices fell 90%
just as a question are there any published figures for development land
it seems bizarre even after a major recovery in land and property they can still only be getting 30% of the original loan value

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Carson wrote:
In what what does this make a mockery of that? Do you have some reason to believe this bundle of loans was sold for below market price?

If something is being sold at 30% of par in today's market, is it not more likely that the quality of the underlying loans is just really low?

For example, let's say a bank lent €50m to a developer in 2007 to buy some land and then the developer went out of business. Land prices subsequently fell by 90% but have recovered somewhat. If Nama could now sell that loan for only a 70% discount, they could potentially be receiving 3x the value that was applied to the loan when it was moved into NAMA.


Is the opaque 'loan market', a market like the property market ?
Development Land fell 95% in places like the Midlands actually . Did Alanis and Paddy Kelly own lands in Longford ?
Why would you engage in the entire Nama years long process, allow developers cross the Ts on the asset transfers, spend monster amounts on professional fees etc ?
Given how half assed their hold vs sell decision was on the Northern Ireland book (the only one that there's really been prodding on) why would we listen to anything Nama says ?


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:05 pm 
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werpen wrote:
Carson wrote:
In what what does this make a mockery of that? Do you have some reason to believe this bundle of loans was sold for below market price?

If something is being sold at 30% of par in today's market, is it not more likely that the quality of the underlying loans is just really low?

For example, let's say a bank lent €50m to a developer in 2007 to buy some land and then the developer went out of business. Land prices subsequently fell by 90% but have recovered somewhat. If Nama could now sell that loan for only a 70% discount, they could potentially be receiving 3x the value that was applied to the loan when it was moved into NAMA.


I really dont think prices fell 90%
just as a question are there any published figures for development land
it seems bizarre even after a major recovery in land and property they can still only be getting 30% of the original loan value

Land prices in large parts of the country fell by 90%
Remember, the bubble was not just in areas of potential future development, it was in wild, untamed, aboriginal places like Cavan.

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Nama did two things:

1) Took bad loans from banks
2) Financed them cheaply using a taxpayer guarantee



So it should be judged on two criteria:

1) Did it maximise value in dealing with the debtors and selling on the loans?
2) Was the impact on sovereign borrowing costs (very large pre-bailout) worth it?


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA sells €1.5 Bn portfolio face value to US firm for €
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Nama did two things:

1) Took bad loans from banks
2) Financed them cheaply using a taxpayer guarantee



So it should be judged on two criteria:

1) Did it maximise value in dealing with the debtors and selling on the loans?
2) Was the impact on sovereign borrowing costs (very large pre-bailout) worth it?

You forget the third - bailing out the squirearcy from a disorderly firesale of loans. That was it's true purposes. Buy the loans as cheap as possible, then let the debtors pay back a fraction of their borrowings, but still have NAMA make a profit. Nothing to do with the people who run NAMA, it's just the way it was set up.

Are you not surprised at how few bankruptcies there have been given the scale of borrowings?

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