Linking future Green Party electoral success to NAMA

Blindjustice BATONEFFECT · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:02 pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0903/poll.html

Quote:

The Green Party chairman has said a snap election may have to be held in the next six months due to the difficulties of cleaning up the banking system and public finances.

Grandstanding or genuine?

Quote:

The TNS/mrbi poll in today's Irish Times indicates that satisfaction with the Government's performance is down 1% to 11% since May, while 85% are dissatisfied and 4% are undecided.

When undecideds are excluded, the poll suggests support for Fianna Fáil is at 17%, down 3% since May.

Fine Gael is also down by 2% to 34%, which is exactly twice as much support as Fianna Fáil.

Labour is up 1% to 24%, putting it firmly in second place, while Sinn Féin has gained 2% to 10%.

The Green Party remains unchanged at 3%.

Independents and others are up 2% to 12%.

The Taoiseach's satisfaction rate has fallen 5% to just 15%.

mr_anderson · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:05 pm

Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0903/poll.html

Quote:

The Green Party chairman has said a snap election may have to be held in the next six months due to the difficulties of cleaning up the banking system and public finances.

[/quote]

Forgive me for being such a cynic, but at what stage do the green ministers qualify for their ministerial pensions ?

Optimistic Pessimist · **Joined:** Mar 19, 2008 **Posts:** 48

The creation of this topic is a response to orwellgeorge's suggestion that a viral campaign should be started to persuade people to vote 'NO' to Lisbon in order to reject NAMA.

I think the objective is good... like most people here I feel ill whenever I think about NAMA. The idea of a viral campaign is good also. However, I think it should be directed at the Greens.

As I stated on the NAMA/Lisbon thread, I'm going to email the Greens and beg them to allow us to have an election on NAMA. They're the only ones who can do it. I was a Green voter all my life until this summer, and I will pledge a return to the fold if they'll just do this one little thing for me ;>

The Greens should portray themselves as responsibly giving the people of the country a choice in which proposed solution to the liquidity crisis is adopted. This could be a huge win for them. It's their only chance of ever getting votes again after this govt term ends.

How about an 'I'll vote Green if you let me have an election!" t-shirt? With a picture of Gormley on the front? (I'll let any marketers here make it a bit snappier).

I hope some or all of you will join me.

provost · **Joined:** Nov 22, 2007 **Posts:** 6073

moved from The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE category to the Off Topic category

EDIT: Merged with other thread in NAMAwatch.

Orwellgeorge · **Joined:** Nov 8, 2007 **Posts:** 1031

Ring them, it's much more effective than emails. Talk to them. They will ring you back if you fail to get them first time around. Let this thread know what sort of reaction you get.

Ciarán Cuffe ( TD ) 01 618 3082
Paul Gogarty ( TD ) 01 6183022, 01 6219966 (Lucan)
John Gormley ( TD ) 01 8882403
Eamon Ryan ( TD ) 01 6183097
Trevor Sargent ( TD )01-8900360, 01-6183465 (Dail)
Mary White ( TD ) Dáil: 01 618 3865, Carlow: 059 917 3721 Kilkenny: 056 77 77 285
Dan Boyle ( Senator ) 021 4704238, 01 6184227 Dail
Deirdre de Burca ( Senator )01 274 5402 (constituency office) 01 618 3513 (Seanad Éireann)

Negative Covenant · **Joined:** Mar 4, 2009 **Posts:** 1049

It sounds like you are suggesting that we petition the Green Party to abandon it's leadership reponsibilities in favour of plebiscite at a time of national economic crisis.

I don't think so. The Greens are in cabinet. It is up to them to assess all the information and advice and decide if they are happy to support the Govt. If they think NAMA is the best solution then they damn well better support it in the interests of the country. I transferred to the Greens ahead of the PDs because I think the Greens are smarter and better versed in the issues that matter. I expect them to live up to their responsibilities difficult though they are. If they want to walk out of Govt then do it in January.

Orwellgeorge · **Joined:** Nov 8, 2007 **Posts:** 1031

Why January?

Optimistic Pessimist · **Joined:** Mar 19, 2008 **Posts:** 48

Are you sure they think that NAMA is the best solution? Even if they do, shouldn't they take on board the possibility that they're wrong?

I think the current debate is dictated by political agendas and no-one has a mandate. On an issue as critical and as potentially expensive as NAMA there should be an opportunity for the Irish people to decide.

If not a general election, then why not a referendum on NAMA versus the other proposed solutions?

Orwellgeorge · **Joined:** Nov 8, 2007 **Posts:** 1031

Optimistic Pessimist wrote:

The creation of this topic is a response to orwellgeorge's suggestion that a viral campaign should be started to persuade people to vote 'NO' to Lisbon in order to reject NAMA.

I think the objective is good... like most people here I feel ill whenever I think about NAMA. The idea of a viral campaign is good also. However, I think it should be directed at the Greens.

As I stated on the NAMA/Lisbon thread, I'm going to email the Greens and beg them to allow us to have an election on NAMA. They're the only ones who can do it. I was a Green voter all my life until this summer, and I will pledge a return to the fold if they'll just do this one little thing for me ;>

The Greens should portray themselves as responsibly giving the people of the country a choice in which proposed solution to the liquidity crisis is adopted. This could be a huge win for them. It's their only chance of ever getting votes again after this govt term ends.

How about an 'I'll vote Green if you let me have an election!" t-shirt? With a picture of Gormley on the front? (I'll let any marketers here make it a bit snappier).

I hope some or all of you will join me.

I agree it would better if we could put real pressure on the Greens. But unfortunately your suggestion will not do that. The only 'Real' pressure that can be applied at the moment is to endanger Lisbon II.

My suggestion is this: To start a website something like http://www.NAMAinLisbonout.ie. People would be invited to subscribe, name address etc., on the following.

We the undersigned, who would ordinarily support the Lisbon treaty, will vote against this necessary treaty until the present government agree to abandon thier NAMA proposal.

If this viral campaign gains traction and in turn gets noticed in the mainstream media, it will generate more debate, more pressure, and creat a dynamic that FF/Greens could well do without.

The Unwelcome Guest · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:47 pm

Orwellgeorge wrote:

My suggestion is this: To start a website

How about a Facebook group?

Orwellgeorge · **Joined:** Nov 8, 2007 **Posts:** 1031

Yes the Facebook groups have the advantage of having a structure, membership etc in place.

On the other hand a seperate website would draw those who don't bother with social networking sites. Many people porposly steer clear of such sites.

Hmmm....either way if we can demonstrate that a certain proportion of yes voters will vote no, then the message will get picked up.

Anyone else have any insights here.

Optimistic Pessimist · **Joined:** Mar 19, 2008 **Posts:** 48

Orwellgeorge wrote:

I agree it would better if we could put real pressure on the Greens. But unfortunately your suggestion will not do that. The only 'Real' pressure that can be applied at the moment is to endanger Lisbon II.

I don't agree that my suggestion won't put pressure on the Greens. I suspect there are many people in the Green party who are opposed to NAMA. If there was a sustained campaign by Joe Public to persuade the Greens to withdraw their support for NAMA, it would be very difficult for the leadership to resist.

Endangering Lisbon II would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. There's no guarantee that the government would fall if Lisbon failed, or that NAMA would be endangered. FF could turn around and say that without Lisbon we need NAMA even more than before.

Orwellgeorge wrote:

My suggestion is this: To start a website something like http://www.NAMAinLisbonout.ie. People would be invited to subscribe, name address etc., on the following.

We the undersigned, who would ordinarily support the Lisbon treaty, will vote against this necessary treaty until the present government agree to abandon thier NAMA proposal.

If this viral campaign gains traction and in turn gets noticed in the mainstream media, it will generate more debate, more pressure, and creat a dynamic that FF/Greens could well do without.

All of the above but instead of messing about with the wholly unrelated Lisbon question, create the debate and pressure on the Greens' role in government. And also that of the independents propping up the government, and any sane backbenchers who have their doubts about NAMA.

fishfoodie · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:04 pm

Orwellgeorge wrote:

Why January?

Just after a budget that will have a very tough passage.

Optimistic Pessimist · **Joined:** Mar 19, 2008 **Posts:** 48

Ha ha, slightly off topic but I just did a search for NAMA on Facebook and was surprised to find a 'business' group called 'NAMA Is The Way'.

It only has 139 members but I thought 'This must be stopped!' and had a look. I was relieved to read the description:

"We meet your meat requirements ,your hunger is our emergency and obey your thirst. Come chilla nathi 4 da best services in the whole of pretoria."

[EDIT] There's also an existing 'No to NAMA' group promoting the march, which suggests pressurising the Green Party to say no to NAMA.
Apologies if this is a rehash of existing info on this site - I haven't read everything yet.

Orwellgeorge · **Joined:** Nov 8, 2007 **Posts:** 1031

Orwellgeorge wrote:

Optimistic Pessimist wrote:

The creation of this topic is a response to orwellgeorge's suggestion that a viral campaign should be started to persuade people to vote 'NO' to Lisbon in order to reject NAMA.

I think the objective is good... like most people here I feel ill whenever I think about NAMA. The idea of a viral campaign is good also. However, I think it should be directed at the Greens.

As I stated on the NAMA/Lisbon thread, I'm going to email the Greens and beg them to allow us to have an election on NAMA. They're the only ones who can do it. I was a Green voter all my life until this summer, and I will pledge a return to the fold if they'll just do this one little thing for me ;>

The Greens should portray themselves as responsibly giving the people of the country a choice in which proposed solution to the liquidity crisis is adopted. This could be a huge win for them. It's their only chance of ever getting votes again after this govt term ends.

How about an 'I'll vote Green if you let me have an election!" t-shirt? With a picture of Gormley on the front? (I'll let any marketers here make it a bit snappier).

I hope some or all of you will join me.

I agree it would better if we could put real pressure on the Greens. But unfortunately your suggestion will not do that. The only 'Real' pressure that can be applied at the moment is to endanger Lisbon II.

My suggestion is this: To start a website something like http://www.NAMAinLisbonout.ie. People would be invited to subscribe, name address etc., on the following.

We the undersigned, who would ordinarily support the Lisbon treaty, will vote against this necessary treaty until the present government agree to abandon thier NAMA proposal.

If this viral campaign gains traction and in turn gets noticed in the mainstream media, it will generate more debate, more pressure, and creat a dynamic that FF/Greens could well do without.

Is there anyone out there with experience on petition sites, such as this http://www.petitionspot.com/ or this one http://www.petitiononline.com/? IF so could you contact me to set up one for a petition on NAMA and Lisbon II along the general lines of what I've outlined above.

Linking future Green Party electoral success to NAMA

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