Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » NAMAwatch (Pt. I)

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:24 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
I haven't seen the judgement but I wouldn't exactly be confident of cui bono's assessment.


Not sure about that. The ruling, while you could consider it a technical point, invalidates NAMA's actions in relation to McKillen. SUre they can try again and if he loses a challenge to that, tough. This time around, he's won.


That is the point. If anything the ruling has affirmed that once the NAMA legislation was enacted and the agency created, all of their actions are bulletproof.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:26 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
grumpy wrote:
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
I haven't seen the judgement but I wouldn't exactly be confident of cui bono's assessment.


Not sure about that. The ruling, while you could consider it a technical point, invalidates NAMA's actions in relation to McKillen. SUre they can try again and if he loses a challenge to that, tough. This time around, he's won.


That is the point. If anything the ruling has affirmed that once the NAMA legislation was enacted and the agency created, all of their actions are bulletproof.


Not yet. The other issues raised are scheduled for further hearings.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:27 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
Not yet. The other issues raised are scheduled for further hearings.


Well then, it's a not yet isn't it then?

What happened to judgements being issued in full!

What's the difference between NAMA managing your loans and a Nationalised Bank??? Is that a Christmas Cracker joke in the making???

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:38 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
What's the difference between NAMA managing your loans and a Nationalised Bank??? Is that a Christmas Cracker joke in the making???


Enough of a difference to see a challenge to the Supreme Court.

OK, the banks are bankers and want to recover as much as possible. NAMA are a bunch of civil servants and half the "professionals" in Dublin feeding on a carcass bought cheap. They only have to recover the discounted value to look ok. So, the nice assets are sold first (like McKillens) while everyone whirrs along feeding from the carcass which seems to be doing what it is supposed to.

Compare and contrast. Noone in the non-NAMA banks are paying 000ks to review "business plans" - largely park for three years and hope you're back in Kansas. Very different recovery vehicles and I know which I think is better.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:41 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
What's the difference between NAMA managing your loans and a Nationalised Bank??? Is that a Christmas Cracker joke in the making???


Enough of a difference to see a challenge to the Supreme Court.

OK, the banks are bankers and want to recover as much as possible. NAMA are a bunch of civil servants and half the "professionals" in Dublin feeding on a carcass bought cheap. They only have to recover the discounted value to look ok. So, the nice assets are sold first (like McKillens) while everyone whirrs along feeding from the carcass which seems to be doing what it is supposed to.

Compare and contrast. Noone in the non-NAMA banks are paying 000ks to review "business plans" - largely park for three years and hope you're back in Kansas. Very different recovery vehicles and I know which I think is better.


Personally, I think it depends on who you think your friends are... :lol:

I'd dispute your definition of "bought cheap", as the taxpayer in this instance has paid twice for the carcass in question.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:15 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:

Personally, I think it depends on who you think your friends are... :lol:

I'd dispute your definition of "bought cheap", as the taxpayer in this instance has paid twice for the carcass in question.


Customers in arrears are not finding banks very friendly.

In relation to the bought cheap, I was merely looking at it from NAMA's perspective.

Going back to your point about the difference between NAMA and a nationalised bank:

:commence rant:

look at this FUCKING nonsense

Quote:
Nama has agreed to sell the car park in a deal that is expected to net a profit of about €140 million.

Anglo provided a loan of £130 million (€148 million) on the property earmarked for redevelopment. Nama is believed to have bought the loan for €40 million.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 72285.html

Of course there is no profit, merely an increased contribution to the state to Anglo on the other side. PROFIT I mean for fucks sake.

No what benefit has this particular transaction given the state: Fuck all. NADA.

The NAMA absorbtion process is inself a divinely onlycouldbeproducedbygovernment fucking nonsense.

Banks value property using valuers.
NAMA appoints valuer to review valuation.
Third valuer gets snout in trough for a review of the outcome of the review.
Accountancy firms pork up on reviewing business plans.
Engage valuers AGAIN to defer to their expertise.
Et fucking cetera.

AND WE'RE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FUCKING TRANSACTION.

NAMA getting tough, NAMA making profits, NAMA evidence before PAC. Bring in big Frank Daly from teh fucking Revenue Commissioners to run the fucking thing, salaries, fees, costs all over the fucking place. And after all of this, as the transaction above demonstrates, it's all fucking shit becuase the process failed utterly.

:End rant:

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Yeah but we know all that.

Screw the Revenue Commissioners, all the loans should have been sold to Latvians'r'us and the Hopping Mad collection agency.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:29 pm 
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The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
Yeah but we know all that.

Screw the Revenue Commissioners, all the loans should have been sold to Latvians'r'us and the Hopping Mad collection agency.


Knowing it doesnt make me any more comfortable when we are paying more tax and this is being frittered away on unnecessary fees. Funny how the non-NAMA banks are able to get professional services on cheaper terms than NAMA is.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Funny? It's downright hilarious...

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:24 am 
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Quote:
11:18 *IRISH COURT: MCKILLEN HAS RIGHT TO MAKE SUBMISSIONS TO NAMA
11:18 *IRISH SUPREME COURT JUDGEMENT ANNOUNCED TODAY IN DUBLIN
11:18 *IRISH COURT SAYS NAMA ACTED CONSTITUTIONALLY IN MCKILLEN CASE


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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Yesssssssssss!

Or...is it Noooooooooooooooo!?

I haven't a clue any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:01 pm 
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O mother o god...
Quote:
Nama to not acquire McKillen loans

The National Assets Management Agency (Nama) has decided not to acquire some €1.5 billion loans of companies of property investor Paddy McKillen, it has emerged.

Lawyers for Mr McKillen said today they had received a letter from Nama stating it no longer proposed to acquire the loans, which were at the centre of a legal battle between Mr McKillen and Nama.

The development came just before the Supreme Court awarded legal costs, estimated at several million, to Mr McKillen against Nama of his successful challenge to the proposed acquisition of loans of about €200 million with Bank of Ireland.

This is going to be a mess beyond compare.

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:03 pm 
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I thought the idea was that NAMA would aquire so called good loans aswell as bad loans and that the interest and so on coming in from the good loans would help offset some of the costs associated with the bad loans. We were even told at one stage that we could make a profit....long term......economic value.......

Has NAMA done a U-turn?????

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
A spokesman for Nama said after the hearing that the Supreme Court ruling was "hugely significant".

He said the decision not to acquire the remaining loans was taken on the basis of the current rather than the historical composition of the loan portfolio.

According to Nama, the composition of the loans changed "substantially" as the land and development exposure "declined significantly since December 2009". The agency said the loans were no longer deemed material in the way they had been in December 2009.

"It is important to bear in mind that Nama successfully defended two of the four grounds on which Mr McKillen objected to the agency’s original decision to acquire his loans; namely that the Nama Act was unconstitutional and that it breached State aid rules."


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing26.html

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 Post subject: Re: Developer McKillen takes first legal challenge against N
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:41 pm 
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It's all just such a mess, isn't it !


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