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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:52 pm 
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It looks like PASOK and New Democracy are going to have enough seats to form a majority coalition and enter parliament.


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Election #3 on the way ...

Pasok Throws A Monkey Wrench Into Coalition Discussions

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/pasok-thr ... iscussions

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As reported in the previous post, the Greek PASOK party of former PM G-Pap may have thrown a grenade into coalition discussion, following an announcement by Katerina Diamantopoulou that Pasok will not join into a coalition government with ND unless Syriza also joins said coalition. Which Syriza stated moments ago it would not do. The question then comes whether ND can form a government (150+ seats) with any of the other remaining parties (up to and including neo-nazi New Dawn). The answer is most likely not, but not before some serious horse trading shows that the second Greek elections has achieved nothing, and the world now has to look forward to a 3rd Greek election round, some time in August


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:44 pm 
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In the world of can kicking, this is a can kicking master class.

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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Even if Greece manages to elect a stable government, the debt issue and the Eurocrisis are still looming large, this is really just a sideshow.

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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Very good article just posted on the Guardian website


Greek elections: the replay deepens the divide


It is unclear what has changed – there's no majority, no platform for stable government, still less any prospect of early recovery



Imagine the pass we would have reached if the future of Britain turned on elections for Coventry city council. The eurozone has reached a comparable position, as the eyes of a continent trained on a ballot in one small corner of a vast economy, representing a mere 3% of the total. The choice of a government is of natural importance to the 11 million Greeks. But one weird consequence of the zone's lethal rigidity is that world statesmen, financial colossuses and fearful millions beyond all got obsessed with Sunday's knife-edge vote.

Greeks waited on Sunday night to learn if two, three or four points separated the conservative New Democracy from the leftist Syriza, but the important numbers for daily life are no longer measured in percentages. They come in great ugly fractions – the full one-fifth of output that has gone up in smoke, the quarter that has been hacked off many pensions and the half of young adults who are unemployed. As the world found out the hard way in the 1930s and is now discovering afresh, there is quite simply a limit to how much austerity people will swallow. The Greeks reject the strangulation of livelihood that they can see all around them, but are also determined to cling to the euro and avoid lurching back to a Balkan past. To survive, the big parties had to fit themselves around these basic contours.

After all, Sunday confirmed the collapse of social democracy in the form of Pasok and also saw a substantial vote sustained for the neo-Nazis of Golden Dawn. Despite being led by the divisive Antonis Samaras, ND thus felt obliged to demand a sweetening of the harsh bailout which it has championed. Even then, it ended down several points on its bad loss of 2009. If it is victory, it's not victory as we know it – hence the immediate spin about a grand coalition. Syriza, meanwhile, which in 2009 was a fringe coalition of malcontents ranging from Greens to Trotskyites, has toned down its Brussels bashing. Its charismatic leader, Alexis Tsipras, penned FT op-eds swearing to stick in the euro, as he trod a path from obscurity to the brink of victory in a couple of months.

Europe's north will soon have to choose between renegotiating so the oxygen of liquidity can flow on less ruinous terms, or else standing back and watching the Greek banks go bust with a bang. Take the second course, and the amputation of the euro's first limb will follow. After this month's Spanish bank rescue failed to soothe market nerves, the immediate question would then be "who next?". A currency of supposedly eternal integrity could be rapidly dismembered. After a campaign whose only effect was to deepen the ND-Syriza faultline by drawing support from elsewhere to both sides of this divide, the two main parliamentary caucuses are bigger. Beyond that, it was unclear what had changed – there's no majority, no platform for stable government, still less any prospect of early recovery.

Having previously intervened to try and frustrate the arrival of a new French president, who on Sunday cemented his power in the National Assembly, Angela Merkel saw fit to hector the Greeks ahead of the vote. The German chancellor's understandable aim may have been capping the huge bailout costs, but the close vote does not suggest this was wise. A campaign of fear may just have secured the sort of supplicant Europe is used to doing business with, but it will not for long avoid a renegotiation, still less achieve anything more enduring. The grip of a new government with a shaky mandate will not be aided by fears of financial subjugation taking a political turn.

At home, George Osborne is deep in the danger zone he once boasted he had got Britain out of. At the Mansion House last week, he proclaimed "new firepower" in the face of the "crisis on our doorstep". But the coming days could do for lingering hopes of an island nation remaining an island of economic tranquillity. Across the continent, the last best hope is the old, dormant doctrine of ever-closer union. It is more likely to be a case of never-closer union if integration acquires the taint of domination, as opposed to partnership.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ens-divide


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:11 am 
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So it would appear that New Democracy will win approximately 130 seats of the 300 available and therefore technically be able to form a ruling coalition with any of the other top 4. I say “techinically” because there are already reports out of Greece that their previous coalition partner PASOK has stated it won’t form a coalition with New Democracy unless SYRIZA comes on board as well. SYRIZA has already ruled this out stating it will stay in Opposition. This suggest that PASOK officials are concerned that New Democracy will be quickly ousted from parliament due to undeliverable promises leaving SYRIZA in a position to cement its power come a new election. In other words, PASOK appears to want everyone to drink from the same poison chalice because it doesn’t want to be caught on the wrong team if/when the new government fails.


http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/06/ ... urope.html

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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Pray and delay

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Greece's new government is to ask lenders for two more years to hit fiscal targets, responding to huge public pressure for a softening of an international bailout but setting up a showdown with its eurozone partners.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ilout.html

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House prices are cyclical, no nation has ever lived through a perpetual house price expansion or contraction.
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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Looks like the new Greek government got a shock after reading the books.
Quote:
Greece's new Finance Minister Vassilis Rapanos has been rushed to hospital, reportedly after fainting. The news follows an announcement earlier in the day that Prime Minister Antonis Samaras needs an emergency eye operation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18554590


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Greek finance minister resigns, crisis deepens -> http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... AW20120625

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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:41 pm 
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TAx Avoidance in Greece

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If Greece’s government was as adept as its banks at figuring out what its citizens earn, the world might be a very different place.

That Greeks have a penchant for evading taxes isn’t exactly news — when tax collectors started comparing swimming-pool ownership with incomes, wealthy Greeks camouflaged their pools. And because hidden income is hidden, figuring the size of the tax dodge is difficult.


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Depicted is the zip code-plotting of tax evasion. The authors of the study pool all individuals in a zip code covered in all samples (over all the years covered by each sample) and plot the average zip code percent of estimate true income evaded. Darker colors denote more tax evasion. The circled area (specifically, the dark area in the middle of the circle) is Larissa, an area targeted by news reports that has the largest number of Porsche Cayennes in Europe

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/07/ ... cs+Blog%29

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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Thieving Cretans? Honest Rhodians ?


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:51 pm 
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mahrud wrote:
Thieving Cretans? Honest Rhodians ?


History. Crete always considered Athens as little more than an occupying power, little better than the Turks who at least left them alone most of the time. The unification mainly came about to further Venizelos political career. So little love lost between the islanders and the rest of the country. In my experience they were two very different countries with Crete being very much the nicer of the two.

Whereas Rhodes only got ride of the Italians in 1944 and is cheek by jowl with Turkey. So very much looks to Athens as it protector. Thats the only reason they are more assiduous in paying their taxes.


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:19 pm 
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johnnyone234 wrote:
TAx Avoidance in Greece

Quote:
If Greece’s government was as adept as its banks at figuring out what its citizens earn, the world might be a very different place.

That Greeks have a penchant for evading taxes isn’t exactly news — when tax collectors started comparing swimming-pool ownership with incomes, wealthy Greeks camouflaged their pools. And because hidden income is hidden, figuring the size of the tax dodge is difficult.


Image

Quote:
Depicted is the zip code-plotting of tax evasion. The authors of the study pool all individuals in a zip code covered in all samples (over all the years covered by each sample) and plot the average zip code percent of estimate true income evaded. Darker colors denote more tax evasion. The circled area (specifically, the dark area in the middle of the circle) is Larissa, an area targeted by news reports that has the largest number of Porsche Cayennes in Europe

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/07/ ... cs+Blog%29


Bloody Greeks tax dodgers all of them! :evil: But wait, it's only about 0.5% who are actually doing the dodging!
The other 99.5% are paying the price.

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Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Egan Jones ahead of the curve ?????

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Egan-Jones cuts Austrian, Dutch sovereign ratings

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(Reuters) - Credit rating agency Egan-Jones on Monday cut the sovereign ratings for both Austria and the Netherlands, citing the ongoing euro zone sovereign debt crisis and the help those countries will provide to prop up fellow members of the monetary union.

The agency lowered Austria's rating to A from A-plus and cut the rating on the Netherlands to A from AA-minus. Both ratings have a negative watch.

Northern European countries will absorb the cost of shoring up ailing neighbors, Egan-Jones said in separate statements on each rating action.

And with Spain and potentially Italy looking for support, "two major economies will switch from providers to users of funds. Our view is that the longer the euro crisis continues, the lower the ultimate recoveries," the statements read.

The euro zone sovereign debt crisis has roiled international markets for more than two years, with investors worried that the region's problems will drag on global growth for years to come.

Moody's Investors Service rates Austria Aaa with a negative outlook. Standard & Poor's rates the nation AA-plus, also with a negative outlook. Fitch Ratings has a AAA rating for Austria, with a stable outlook.

The Netherlands is rated AAA by both Standard & Poor's and Fitch Ratings, with a stable outlook from Fitch and a negative outlook from S&P. Moody's Investors Service rates the country Aaa, with a stable outlook.


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 Post subject: Re: EU "will not bail out Greece"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:40 pm 
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http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16117892 ... l-1573-rdf
Quote:
The German news magazine Spiegel reports that the IMF has told the EU it will provide no additional funds for Greece. The report has sparked fresh fears that Greece could fall into bankruptcy by the autumn.
A report by a German news magazine on Sunday sparked fresh concerns about the possibility of Greece being forced into insolvency.
In an article published on its website, Spiegel cites unnamed senior European Union sources in Brussels who told the news magazine that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) had signaled it would not contribute to any further aid for Greece.
According to the report, this makes the possibility of Greece going bankrupt more likely, and it could do just that as soon as September.


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